ThursdayNext : www.jasperfforde.com
A discussion of all things Thursday !
Re: More references...
Posted by: poetscientistdrinker (---.rdg.ac.uk)
Date: December 05, 2002 02:00PM
<HTML>pg 273 needs an extra reference - I've discovered who Mrs Cavendish is, through the marvellous programme that is Woman's Hour. And the extravagant dress is right on... Margaret 'Mad Meg' Cavendish was married to the Duke of Newcastle, and has recently become popular amongst feminist academics, amongst others, after many years of neglect. Her dress was legendary, as she herself noted - 'I endeavour to be as singular as I can; for it argues but a mean nature to imitate others'. A flavour of one view can be found in an article for the Guardian by<a href="http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/wlm/essexgirl.html">Germaine Greer</a>.
Dorothy Osbourne described her as 'a little distracted' and that there 'are many soberer people in Bedlam'. Pepys described her poetry as 'the most ridiculous thing that ever was wrote' and Mad Meg herself as 'mad, conceited and ridiculous'. In part this was no doubt due to her writing plays and stories in which women could investigate alternative realities, thus making her a true Nextian. One such - 'The Convent of Pleasure' (stop sniggering at the back) - had a woman using her endowment to set up a refuge for women only as men caused all the pain in life and caused no pleasure, which implies mi'lord Newcastle wasn't a good advert for the Geordies, although she did describe him in terms most unbecoming (check the Greer article for more on this...). Unfortunately I can't find a copy of the quote that read:
"If you should gain a copy of her latest book, please send it to me at once. I have heard it is several times more ridiculous than even her dress."
Magaret Cavendish also wrote some tuly stunning poetry, such as 'What is Liquid?' which proves that she was at least the equal of 'three feet wide' Wordsworth...
All that doth flow we cannot liquid name
Or else would fire and water be the same;
But that is liquid which is moist and wet
Fire that property can never get.
Then 'tis not cold that doth the fire put out
But 'tis the wet that makes it die, no doubt.</HTML>
Dorothy Osbourne described her as 'a little distracted' and that there 'are many soberer people in Bedlam'. Pepys described her poetry as 'the most ridiculous thing that ever was wrote' and Mad Meg herself as 'mad, conceited and ridiculous'. In part this was no doubt due to her writing plays and stories in which women could investigate alternative realities, thus making her a true Nextian. One such - 'The Convent of Pleasure' (stop sniggering at the back) - had a woman using her endowment to set up a refuge for women only as men caused all the pain in life and caused no pleasure, which implies mi'lord Newcastle wasn't a good advert for the Geordies, although she did describe him in terms most unbecoming (check the Greer article for more on this...). Unfortunately I can't find a copy of the quote that read:
"If you should gain a copy of her latest book, please send it to me at once. I have heard it is several times more ridiculous than even her dress."
Magaret Cavendish also wrote some tuly stunning poetry, such as 'What is Liquid?' which proves that she was at least the equal of 'three feet wide' Wordsworth...
All that doth flow we cannot liquid name
Or else would fire and water be the same;
But that is liquid which is moist and wet
Fire that property can never get.
Then 'tis not cold that doth the fire put out
But 'tis the wet that makes it die, no doubt.</HTML>
Re: More references...
Posted by: Jon (---.abel.net.uk)
Date: December 05, 2002 02:40PM
<HTML>Ogden Nash! I forgot about him when doing my poetry page. My fave is
The turtle lives 'twixt plated decks
Which practically conceal its sex.
I think it clever of the turtle
In such a fix to be so fertile.
Or do you prefer this by Christopher Isherwood? (allegedly)
The common cormorant, or shag
Lays eggs inside a paper bag.
The reason you will see, no doubt,
It is to keep the lightning out.
But what these unobservant birds
Have never noticed is that herds
Of wandering bears may come with buns
And steal the bags to hold the crumbs.</HTML>
The turtle lives 'twixt plated decks
Which practically conceal its sex.
I think it clever of the turtle
In such a fix to be so fertile.
Or do you prefer this by Christopher Isherwood? (allegedly)
The common cormorant, or shag
Lays eggs inside a paper bag.
The reason you will see, no doubt,
It is to keep the lightning out.
But what these unobservant birds
Have never noticed is that herds
Of wandering bears may come with buns
And steal the bags to hold the crumbs.</HTML>
Re: More references...
Posted by: Rob Johnson (---.leeds.ac.uk)
Date: December 05, 2002 02:51PM
<HTML>I like Ogden's approach to wooing the fairer sex.
Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker.</HTML>
Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker.</HTML>
Re: More references...
Posted by: poetscientistdrinker (---.rdg.ac.uk)
Date: December 05, 2002 03:49PM
<HTML>another reference to add:
Dedication:
The dedication is actually a partial riddle: the assistant to whom Jasper primarily refers is of course the reader. This is made clear in <a href="http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/feb02/fforde.htm">this interview</a> reproduced below.
"<i>If books and reading were invented tomorrow they would be hailed as the greatest technological advance known to mankind. No batteries, simple, portable, durable. Why bother building sets or creating convincing computer effects when the images are already there in the reader's mind? Think about it. A collection of letters and figures barely 1k in computer terms inputting images direct to the reader's own imagination:
</i>"....The mediaeval castle was suspended in the air, barely a cable's length above the moonlit sea, the towers dark, the silence only broken by the raucous call of a lone raven as it wheeled close by the only lit window..." <i>
Get the picture? Yes, but how is it done? By following a simple Imaginotransference protocol? When a reader praises an author, they should reserve 75% of that praise for themselves... </i></HTML>
Dedication:
The dedication is actually a partial riddle: the assistant to whom Jasper primarily refers is of course the reader. This is made clear in <a href="http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/feb02/fforde.htm">this interview</a> reproduced below.
"<i>If books and reading were invented tomorrow they would be hailed as the greatest technological advance known to mankind. No batteries, simple, portable, durable. Why bother building sets or creating convincing computer effects when the images are already there in the reader's mind? Think about it. A collection of letters and figures barely 1k in computer terms inputting images direct to the reader's own imagination:
</i>"....The mediaeval castle was suspended in the air, barely a cable's length above the moonlit sea, the towers dark, the silence only broken by the raucous call of a lone raven as it wheeled close by the only lit window..." <i>
Get the picture? Yes, but how is it done? By following a simple Imaginotransference protocol? When a reader praises an author, they should reserve 75% of that praise for themselves... </i></HTML>
Re: More references...
Posted by: Magda (---.dialip.mich.net)
Date: December 06, 2002 05:15AM
<HTML>Jon,
Of course I've actually watched American TV - quite a bit of it. In fact, I've already mentioned Remington Steele.
I will admit that these days TV is mainly something I turn on occassionally while doing something else. The only shows I watch regularly are "The West Wing" and "Law and Order".
I love Ogden Nash. My mother used to quote annually:
Spring has sprung,
the grass has riz.
I wonder where the flowers is?
Birds on wing,
now that's absurd!
I though the wing was on the bird.</HTML>
Of course I've actually watched American TV - quite a bit of it. In fact, I've already mentioned Remington Steele.
I will admit that these days TV is mainly something I turn on occassionally while doing something else. The only shows I watch regularly are "The West Wing" and "Law and Order".
I love Ogden Nash. My mother used to quote annually:
Spring has sprung,
the grass has riz.
I wonder where the flowers is?
Birds on wing,
now that's absurd!
I though the wing was on the bird.</HTML>
Re: More references...
Posted by: carla (198.179.227.---)
Date: December 06, 2002 08:43AM
<HTML>how about the Sopranos??
The Sopranos and The Simpsons are the only things I bother to set the video for... now that the Office is gone...</HTML>
The Sopranos and The Simpsons are the only things I bother to set the video for... now that the Office is gone...</HTML>
american tv
Posted by: ScarletBea (---.server.ntl.com)
Date: December 06, 2002 10:28AM
<HTML>Six feet under
The X Files</HTML>
The X Files</HTML>
Re: american tv
Posted by: carla (198.179.227.---)
Date: December 06, 2002 11:34AM
<HTML>the x files is so over rated</HTML>
Re: american tv
Posted by: dave (---.addleshaw-booth.co.uk)
Date: December 06, 2002 11:41AM
<HTML>and with this being the last season, so over.</HTML>
Re: american tv
Posted by: ScarletBea (---.server.ntl.com)
Date: December 06, 2002 11:44AM
<HTML>say what you like, i still enjoy watching it...
i dont watch it just because its 'hype' or 'cool'
(I hated when they started advertising 6 feet under as the best tv series around, grrr)</HTML>
i dont watch it just because its 'hype' or 'cool'
(I hated when they started advertising 6 feet under as the best tv series around, grrr)</HTML>
Re: american tv
Posted by: Magda (---.dialip.mich.net)
Date: December 07, 2002 03:27AM
<HTML>Sopranos are on HBO, which is a "premium" channel on our cable - meaning it costs extra. So I don't get it. Not sure if I'd watch it if I did, but it's not an option.
-Magda</HTML>
-Magda</HTML>
Re: american tv
Posted by: Carla (---.zen.co.uk)
Date: December 07, 2002 11:00AM
<HTML>here we get it on the normal TV about 6 months after it has been on digital TV. i'm lucky and i'm watching series 4 on Digital</HTML>
Re: Ogden Nash
Posted by: Magda (---.med.umich.edu)
Date: December 23, 2002 10:22PM
<HTML>Speaking of Ogden Nash (which we were a while back) here's something seasonal:
Alias Santa Claus
(an Ogden Nash special form 1957)
Good children all, 'tis Christmas Eve,
So don your gayest nighties,
And come and gather round my knee,
The one without arthritis.
This magic night each little head
Is filled with visions numberless,
And eyes that should have closed at eight
At midnight still are slumberless,
Trying to stay awake for that tanta--
Lizingly imminent visit from Santa.
Children, you know as well as I
A vigil vain you keep,
That generous man will not appear
'Til you have gone to sleep.
'Tis my desire to see a yawn
On all your rosy faces,
So I'll recount how Santa Claus
Appears in foreign places;
A tale of Christmas customs different
Which I hope will prove to be soporiferant.
Some may find it hard to believe
The things that happen on Christmas Eve.
Do you know that there is no law or laws
That Santa Claus must be Santa Claus?
In Holland, to every lad and lass
He is know by the name of Sinterklaas,
And arrives with his wonderful bag of tricks
Not on Christmas Eve, but December six,
On a fine white horse,in a robe of red,
With a jeweled miter on his head.
In Germany, kinder und herrs und fraus
Refer to him as Sankt Nikolaus.
I've heard it said and I've seen it written
That they call him Father Christmas in Britain,
And another tale that I've heard tell,
In France he is know as Pere Noel,
And as he makes his midnight rounds
The animals speak in human sounds.
In Sweden, he is a dwarf named Tomte,
A sort of Yuletide Humpty Dumpty,
And in Norway and Denmark, children listen!
He's a gnarly gnome gnamed Jule-nissen;
A friend of mine who was over there wrote back
That he carries his gifts around on goatback.
Another friend of mine, named Mildred,
In Italy got all bewildred,
For Santa Claus,in some strange manner,
Becomes an old witch, by name Befana.
On a broomstick high in the air she lifts
And flies like a bat to transport her gifts,
And to show how customs can further vary,
This occurs on the sixth of January.
No matter what the form or name,
All Santa Clauses are the same,
You'd get your presents, oh yes you would,
In any land,if you'd been good.
But if you've been naughty, children dear,
Be glad you inhabit this hemisphere,
For Santa abroad keeps fearful company,
Into of whom I don't want to bump any,
A band of disciplinarian terrors,
Who count your sins and mark your errors.
There skips o'er Amsterdam's canals
An imp not painted by Frans Hals,
Black Peter he, a tiny Moor,
Who sets an ear to every door,
Brandishing, as his way he winds,
Birch rods to chasten small behinds.
In Germany lives old Pelznickle,
Who causes children's skin to prickle;
He loves to exercise his switches
On boys who have outgrown their breeches.
Then as we travel farther East
We find the peril has increased.
The Czechoslovak child too pert
Must reckon with a thing called Cert,
A hooded devil with a whip,
The very tops in devilship;
And oh the miserable lot
That waits the bad Hungarian tot!
Krampusz, a demon with a chain
To carry off the rude and vain.
(Myself, I feel a visit from Krampusz
Would benefit many a college campusz.)
Good children all, two things you've learned
Because you paid attention;
The first one is so obvious
It's hardly worth the mention:
If you have been polite and sweet
When tiresome grown-ups bored you,
No matter in what land you road
Old Santa will reward you.
But if you've got a bad record backaya,
Keep out of Hungary and Czeckosovakia.
The other thing you must have learned
Unless a mental cripple,
Is how a modern-minded child
His Christmas loot may triple.
What matter if it cost your pa
Both bank account and hairline?
Just lead him firmly by the hand
To a transatlantic airline.
Thus in Holland on December sixth
You may do very prettily,
Then fly home for Christmas,
On back for Jan. sixth in Italy.</HTML>
Alias Santa Claus
(an Ogden Nash special form 1957)
Good children all, 'tis Christmas Eve,
So don your gayest nighties,
And come and gather round my knee,
The one without arthritis.
This magic night each little head
Is filled with visions numberless,
And eyes that should have closed at eight
At midnight still are slumberless,
Trying to stay awake for that tanta--
Lizingly imminent visit from Santa.
Children, you know as well as I
A vigil vain you keep,
That generous man will not appear
'Til you have gone to sleep.
'Tis my desire to see a yawn
On all your rosy faces,
So I'll recount how Santa Claus
Appears in foreign places;
A tale of Christmas customs different
Which I hope will prove to be soporiferant.
Some may find it hard to believe
The things that happen on Christmas Eve.
Do you know that there is no law or laws
That Santa Claus must be Santa Claus?
In Holland, to every lad and lass
He is know by the name of Sinterklaas,
And arrives with his wonderful bag of tricks
Not on Christmas Eve, but December six,
On a fine white horse,in a robe of red,
With a jeweled miter on his head.
In Germany, kinder und herrs und fraus
Refer to him as Sankt Nikolaus.
I've heard it said and I've seen it written
That they call him Father Christmas in Britain,
And another tale that I've heard tell,
In France he is know as Pere Noel,
And as he makes his midnight rounds
The animals speak in human sounds.
In Sweden, he is a dwarf named Tomte,
A sort of Yuletide Humpty Dumpty,
And in Norway and Denmark, children listen!
He's a gnarly gnome gnamed Jule-nissen;
A friend of mine who was over there wrote back
That he carries his gifts around on goatback.
Another friend of mine, named Mildred,
In Italy got all bewildred,
For Santa Claus,in some strange manner,
Becomes an old witch, by name Befana.
On a broomstick high in the air she lifts
And flies like a bat to transport her gifts,
And to show how customs can further vary,
This occurs on the sixth of January.
No matter what the form or name,
All Santa Clauses are the same,
You'd get your presents, oh yes you would,
In any land,if you'd been good.
But if you've been naughty, children dear,
Be glad you inhabit this hemisphere,
For Santa abroad keeps fearful company,
Into of whom I don't want to bump any,
A band of disciplinarian terrors,
Who count your sins and mark your errors.
There skips o'er Amsterdam's canals
An imp not painted by Frans Hals,
Black Peter he, a tiny Moor,
Who sets an ear to every door,
Brandishing, as his way he winds,
Birch rods to chasten small behinds.
In Germany lives old Pelznickle,
Who causes children's skin to prickle;
He loves to exercise his switches
On boys who have outgrown their breeches.
Then as we travel farther East
We find the peril has increased.
The Czechoslovak child too pert
Must reckon with a thing called Cert,
A hooded devil with a whip,
The very tops in devilship;
And oh the miserable lot
That waits the bad Hungarian tot!
Krampusz, a demon with a chain
To carry off the rude and vain.
(Myself, I feel a visit from Krampusz
Would benefit many a college campusz.)
Good children all, two things you've learned
Because you paid attention;
The first one is so obvious
It's hardly worth the mention:
If you have been polite and sweet
When tiresome grown-ups bored you,
No matter in what land you road
Old Santa will reward you.
But if you've got a bad record backaya,
Keep out of Hungary and Czeckosovakia.
The other thing you must have learned
Unless a mental cripple,
Is how a modern-minded child
His Christmas loot may triple.
What matter if it cost your pa
Both bank account and hairline?
Just lead him firmly by the hand
To a transatlantic airline.
Thus in Holland on December sixth
You may do very prettily,
Then fly home for Christmas,
On back for Jan. sixth in Italy.</HTML>
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