Beeing non-english, reading TBOE has been tough...I have spent more than a few hours googling after all the different rhymes and fairy tales. Ooff! For example I understand that Jack and the beanstalk is a quite popular fairy tale in England, but there is no german version, so I never heard of it before. With rhymes, it is even worse.
But at least I can say that even when you find out about a source of reference only after reading the book passage, it stays funny and quite brilliant.

Anyway, there are two points where I still have the nagging feeling I am missing something (that obviously only means I suspect something...what I have never spotted might be a good deal more):

Is there somewhere a Gingerbread man story where he kills or acts in any way that might be considered psychopathic?

Concerning Georgie Porgie - the reference to home improvement and to tounge-splitting "so that all the dogs in town could have a little bit" I also couldn't figure out.

Can anyone help? I would be indebted!

PrinzHilde

P. S. I seriously doubt Hodder will find anyone interested in translating the book into another language...

I just got on this form to ask the same question--why is the Gingerbreadman a psychopathic killer? The only versions I know of this story (here in the US) just end up with him being eaten by a fox. So how about it? Did Fforde just make this up or is there a version I don't know about?

Thanks!

The gingerbread man played all sorts of tricks on people (details depend on the version) and then would run away laughing:

"Run, run just as fast as you can
You can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man"

And yes, he finally gets eaten as a sort of delayed justice.

Stoolies, grasses, dobbers or 'tell-tales' are warned by the rhyme

"Tell-tale tit, your tongue shall split
and all the dogs in town will have a little bit."

I would be amazed if there were no 'german version' of "Jack and the Beanstalk"; now there's a marketing opportunity!

edit added later: "and all the little birds shall have a little bit" is probably more commonly known.



Post Edited (09-26-05 02:55)

Well, yes, you can find translations of "Jack and the Beanstalk" on the Internet. But as far as I could see, either there is given no source at all, or it is designated as the translation of an english fairy tale. All in all, Google gives only ca. 1600 links for "Märchen Bohnenranke" (fairy tale beanstalk), which is ominously sparse, compared to 100,000 to 300,000 links for more commonly told fairy tales.
Furthermore, it is not included in the Brother Grimm collection or retold by Hans Christian Andersen, which would be the two most popular repositories for fairy tales in germany.

Otherwise thanks for the "tell-tale tit" hint!

Has anyone else an idea about the "home improvement"?

Re Georgie Porgie - the rhyme is

Georgie Porgie Pudding and Pie
Kissed the girls and made them cry
When the boys came out to play
Georgie Porgie ran away.

Variation on last line

...he kissed them too 'cos he's made that way.

The tongue splitting reference is to do with a rhyme children chant to a sneaks (well we did when I was a child), sneak being a term for someone telling tales.

Tell tale tit
Your tongue shall be slit
And every little dog in the town
Shall have a little bit.

Hope this helps

Well, yes. But are there any versions of the story where the gingerbread man becomes homicidal? I feel like I may have heard a version where he pushes the old woman into the oven, but I may just be conflating the story with Hansel and Gretel.

Also, is there a Jellyman story? I asked my mom if she had ever heard about such a character, and she hadn't, so I'm thinking it might be a primarily British story, if one exists at all.

So, any help?

I not familiar with a Jellyman either. Perhaps he's just what Jelly Babies grow into - and everyone loves Jelly Babies!

There is a recent movie - 'Gingerdead Man' - where four evil criminals are executed and cremated. Their ashes are accidentally baked in an oven into a gingerbreadman which comes alive and goes on a killing spree. C'mon, don't blame me, I didn't say it was a GOOD movie!

The movie is too recent (2005 I think) to have inspired the BOE character yet it is strange that both of these are homicidally inclined when the nursery rhyme character is basically just an annoying tease.

What about the Gingerbreadman in Shrek 2?

Could this be the inspiration?

I agree with Robert - Jelly Babies grow into Jelly Men and Women. Brings to mind the question - if faced with a Jelly Man would you bite the head off first?

I knew i had a picture of a cartoon gingerbreadman running arround somewhere... thats it, shrek2

Wasn't there a Jelly Queen in a Roald Dahl story?

Cheers

Delacuesta



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Did you know that DCI "Friedland Chymes" is named after a doorbell that used to be purchaseable at a well known retailer in the UK?Bet that will ring your bell!

Re: the Gingerbread man. Yes I have seen a murderous Gingerbread man somewhere.. cartoons maybe.. seems to me he was an axe murderer. But I guess after years of having his legs and his head ripped off he had had enough.

I have a book that purports that Georgie Porgie was George I (of England, I assume). I thought all he did was kiss.
-kp

I think that Jasper is combining different nursery ryhmes simply for the story. As for the Gingerbread Man, can you blame him for becoming a homicidal maniac? After the ways people torture gingerbread men that they plan to eat. (And look at the way Gingy in Shrek was tortured.) :)

I think the gingerbread man is evil for the reason that its funny. I mean a cute little gingerbread man a homicidal maniac..just think about that..its funny. Also as earlier stated in the forum Jasper just made up the jellyman hes not real..or in a nursery rhyme.



SpecOps-27 Wordage is our business Grammar is our game.

Well, the only other refrence to a evil gingerbread man I know of is a short american cartoon called secret squirrel (on two stupid dogs) where he fights an evil one. but that's a little far out to get a book refrence too.

Personally I've never heard of the Quee one ( I'm pouposly leaving out the other words because I'll butcher them if I even attempt to type them.) but that might just be my region. southern united states, never heard of it.

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by the way...I've been convicted of Gramatical Homicide, and charged 18 years to life, so don't bother telling me about all the spelling mistakes. It's already on my record.

The Quangle Wangle Quee is an invention by Edward Lear. Find it here:
[www.nonsenselit.org]

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