Up until Thursday's second trial scene with the King and Queen of Hearts, I thought that the Red Queen was from Lewis Carrol. From Thursday's reaction to the Queen of Hearts, I'm guessing now that they are not the same character.

What am I missing here?

The Red Queen is absolutely hilarious and her relationship with Miss Haversham is a laugh riot.

Can someone enlighten me please. From what literary source is the Red Queen taken?

Thanks

Both are from Lewis Carrol. The Queen of Hearts is from Alice in Wonderland. The Red Queen is from Alice through the Looking Glass. If I remember rightly (and I have to admit it's a long time since I last read Alice) the Red Queen is a chess piece who runs very fast without actually moving. Something I find myself doing all too often.

The Red Queen is from Lewis Carroll, but from 'Alice's Adventures Through the Looking Glass' rather than 'Alice in Wonderland'. Some chess sets have (or, at any rate, had) red pieces instead of black ones, and she was originally (& was depicted in the illustrations as clearly being based on) the queen from one of those...


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Logic is like Fire, a good servant but a bad master.

Oops! I somehow (due to the fact that this thread appeared on my screen with only the opening post visible, and a list of all the ones so far [i.e. that one and your reply] underneath it) the fact that you'd already explained this...

The Queen of Hearts (apart from the obvious cards reference) appears earlier than Carroll in what turned into a nursery rhyme but came from a much longer poem first written by Charles Lamb in 1805:

The Queen of Hearts
She made some Tarts
All on a Summers day
The Knave of Hearts
He stole those Tarts
And took them quite away


The King of Hearts
Call'd for those Tarts
And beat the Knave full sore
The Knave of Hearts
Brought back those Tarts
And vow'd he'd steal no more.

(The version I learned as a child is slightly different, but only by one word...)



Post Edited (06-20-04 18:00)

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If the English language made any sense, a catastrophe would be an apostrophe with fur.

Which is...?



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'Pompadour,' spat my mother. 'Living in sin with his pompadour.'

Seeing as no-one is replying to you, I will put forward my suggestion...

I think the word was 'knave' and it was probably substituted for 'Jack' as 'knave' is in a deck of English cards. Hence, the 'J' cards.

The Queen of Hearts earlier reference is all very good, but this doesn't suggest the origins of the Red Queen. Surely a Red Queen could be a queen of hearts or a queen of diamonds?

Or maybe it's the Queen from the Resident Evil film????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Spyder~~~~~*

I think it's made clear in the book that the Red Queen is from Lewis Carroll's second Alice book, Through the Looking Glass. She is one of the many chess pieces Alice meets while making her way across an enormous chess board.
Your explanation of "knave" versus "jack" has dredged up a wisp of a memory of a scene from Great Expectations in which Estella complains that Pip is so ignorant and common that he calls the knaves "jacks" in their card game. Interesting coincidence, considering that it is Miss Havisham from Great Expectations who hates the Red Queen.

Hmmmn, that is a strange coincidence...

...better get the entroposcope out!

Spyder Webb~~~*