OK guys, most of you probably don't even remember me, but...

I need your help. Since you're all members of the Jasper Fforde / Thursday Next fforum, I assume many of you, if not most or all of you, enjoy writing at least as a hobby. I'm one of the guys who wants to make fiction writing a career. But I have a problem. I don't have anything to write about.

I don't want you guys to toss out ideas at me. That would be dishonest. The thing is, I'm great at handling the language. Like Jasper, I love the confusing and entertaining intricacies of the English language. I have written hundreds of pages' worth of "fan fiction" to entertain myself and a friend that I have never shown anyone else, and I know that I can set a scene and write in an entertaining manner. Of course, I have an obviously biased judge of that, but I feel confident in my skill and can usually catch myself when I'm making a mistake or writing badly in a general sense.

So my only problem is, I don't have anything to write about. I have big problems thinking of original ideas that I like. Tons of random things that might work as stories pop into my head every day, but I don't ever feel satisfied and often think that this is a story for a different writer. The sort of thing that I want to write is similar in tone to Jasper's stuff, especially because I am unable to take anything seriously and because my biggest goal is to create a universe that can entertain as well as affect readers emotionally, because that's the sort of thing I personally enjoy. Can anyone give me some advice as to how to get creative juices flowing? Nobody's ever given me a satisfactory answer, but I feel that you guys are the people to turn to. If you need to know more to help me, I'll answer anything as long as it's not super personal.

Please lend a Fforde ffan a hand...

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Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die. -Mel Brooks

'Learning by doing', they say, and it's good advice. Just start writing - as long as you postpone the practical aspect of authorship, it stays theoretical. (And safe - you needn't fear defeat when you don't do anything! - but passivity is the worst defeat of them all... ;) ) Start keeping a journal; write about something you don't think you can do - and you may find the spark of your own original creativity within it; above all, write about something close to your heart.

Don't wait until you have THE idea of a lifetime - any published author will tell you that it's a long way to find your own style. But as long as you do nothing, you won't ever get there.

Write short works; maybe they can be integrated into a longer work later on. And maybe an idea that comes from an early work (like Jasper's Nextian universe, which was born in the Nursery Crime book and found no approval at first) will be the germ of your fantabulous original universe and books.

Just put something on paper and keep doing it. Revising what you've already written is much easier once you've started writing something.

Hi PC.

You say that you have written hundreds of pages of fan fiction: why not trawl through what you have already done and see if there are ideas that don't rely on the original authors' characters and use that plot line as a basis? Don't forget that, for example, JFf is not the first or last author to use an alternate history, JKR is not the first or last to write about children with magical powers and their education and JRRT used elements from earlier stories in "Lord of the Rings".

Good luck!

last time I got writers block, I fixed it by going away and painting and doing a little light scribbling. The piece of writing came from the scribbles- I just chose and image I liked, worked out why I liked it, then tried to describe the vibe from it. Admittedly, that was for a poem, for Mum's wedding last year, but it might be helpful.

As someone who has a few ideas for books (and films...and lots of other stuff) but rarely can get past the first couple of pages due to thinking the idea's rubbish, the writing's rubbish, the plan's just too complex/unweildy/simply won't work, getting distracted by another idea or simple laziness, I personally feel you're in a good position. That said, I can appreciate your desire for some strong ideas of your own, so thinking roughly about the way I get my ideas...

Firstly, the above posts all are good methods! I should possibly take note of the comment about 'but passivity is the worst defeat of them all' myself!

Next, the cliched methods - don't neglect things like dreams and random flashes of inspiration. A notebook or paper by the bed could be helpful for remembering them, especially dreams (which I find I tend to have completely forgotten by the time I get to the kitchen for breakfast).

As for my own things...don't be shy to take inspiration from other writers. Analayse for yourself a few books you've read, and why you enjoyed them. Think about which ideas you wish you'd come up with, and which aspects you'd have done differently. For example, I intend to write a book about time travel...at some point...and I recently read the book "The Time Traveler's Wife". During the first part, I was spending a lot of time thinking 'this is pretty much the sort of book I wanted to write, regarding the time travel stuff - just this book's a romance instead of a drama'. Obviously you're then in the position of having to write different stuff to what you've read, but it does help with inspiration. Linked to Skid's idea, consider why you've been writing fan fiction and what you've been doing with the ideas, settings and characters that is your own - I'd have thought the new stuff you were putting in would be because you want to write about it. See what you can flesh out to a full idea!

Also, depending on where you want your writing to go in the long run, be ambitious. Think about what's been done, then think about what hasn't been done (or at least what you hope hasn't been done!) Think about what everything you read has in common, and how you could turn that on its head. Sometimes characters, ideas, situations will just build up from this - or at least, I find they do. Of course, the ideas that result from this method could be linked to why I find some of my concepts so hard to work on, but if you feel you've got a strong grasp of language, you might be able to make them work.

Going back to your post, I notice you said you have loads of ideas, but often feel unsatisfied or as though they're material for a different writer. Don't give up on these ideas! Play with them. Start as though you're writing for them; then prod them a bit and see if they change in a way you like. Don't be scared to manipulate the entire concept at a later point and you might be able to get to something you feel is for you. A number of my ideas have gone through all sorts of variations, and probably will go through all sorts more before they actually get anywhere.

I hope some of this is some sort of help - even if it just gets you thinking of methods appropriate to your own methods of creativity, similar to these or not. If you want to give any more details, such as what sort of books you think you do want to write (genre or style-wise - although, of course, never feel you have to fix yourself to a pigeonhole), that may give me/others more starting points to work off (for example, with some genres like horror, I might suggest doing some research into 'real' horror stories - dependent again on what you'd like to do - for inspiration, whereas other genres that would be less appropriate).

Or, if you haven't already, you could get some paid employment, which has an amazing ability to make the mind wander...

I would sort of recommend you read the introduction to the Rivan Codex by David Eddings merely as an interesting tidbit and it has some small pointers on writing. Also the bit about Elenor of Aquitain is very funny. You can find the intro online.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2008 09:40AM by Lymond.

I'd also recommend you subscribe to a good writers mag. Writers news is a good one - each month they come up with a suggestion for a short story and invite submissions. Plus, you could win something! Also, why not scour the competition sites? The idea of your writing earning you a prize might help delete that writers block.

I'm back! First of all, big thanks to all of you for your contributions. I've thought of some ideas myself before, but somehow hearing other writers bring them up them makes them sound much less hopeless. I'm working on a idea that feels promising and entertaining (for me at least) for a science-fiction comedy right now, using my love of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and the inherent entertainment value of Star Wars fanatics as inspiration, though sometimes I fear I don't know as much about the "science" half of science-fiction to write about things like interstellar travel and alien biology. It's an idea I've toyed around with for some time, but your advice and support are helping me put it all together, especially that part about trying to recycle scenes from my fan fiction and give them a more original spin. Thanks for your time, and I would sincerely appreciate it if you'd post anything else you might have to contribute.

To give you a bit more to work on: in writing, my biggest interest is exploring the relationship between fans (fanboys, fangirls, what-have-you) and the object of their affection. In my opinion, it's a fascinating subject that you rarely come across and that I think deserves more exploration; I think you can see how that ties in with the kind of story I'm writing, though the vast majority of the story ideas I get also have something to do with that theme. I'd like to touch it a lot more directly, perhaps in contemporary fantasy, but when I try to think of good ideas, anything I come up with is always too close to one of three things: Jasper's stuff, the graphic novel Watchmen, or another favorite of mine, the film Who Framed Roger Rabbit, a story I find fascinating and really, really wish I could have thought of myself. Once in a blue moon I'll think of something completely unheard of, but when I do I'm rarely fully satisfied and feel as though I'm the only person it could ever make sense to.

One last thing for today. How do you set up a mystery novel? One time I came up with a vampire comedy (that's pretty original, isn't it?) that made affectionate fun of the "angsty teen vampire" cult and was also an homage to the classics of Gothic horror and fantasy in a way that I thought was very fresh and satisfying. Although I liked it, the story could only work if set up as a "whodunit" and I honestly have no clue how you go about doing that. Do you plan the whole crime right from the beginning, or do you make it up as you go along? If the former, how many clues are too many? How far apart is too far apart? Where does the red herring go? If you can't help me with this, I understand completely, but if you can, again, I'd really appreciate it.

Thank you all so much, every last one of you.

I think you've earned a spot on the acknowledgements page at the end of my novel.

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Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die. -Mel Brooks

<I fight werewolves and lemons in my dreams. I was given an eye once too, for some strange reason>
I have many others ^_^

Um. If you have the overall crime/conspiracy bit worked out first, it's a lot easier!
Making it up as you go along can work, but it can also leave massive plot-holes.

Lack of overarching plotline is usually why my stuff ends short.

If you can work out the major points, then you can write around them.

__________________________________
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

Maybe try doing something else creative, like going to an art gallery, and looking at art, and seeing if you can build stuff around them, or from them.

Or actually try making your own art?

Yeah, I'd add my vote to the others - if you wanted to do a murder-mystery whodunnit sort of thing, then you'd need to have the plot mapped out from the beginning. The order that would make sense to me would be (note I'm just going to use generic terms for the genre; obviously they may not apply directly to you but chances are the roles would still be present in some form):

Who did what (regarding the actual main mystery); why they did it.
How the detective finds out about this.
What stages the detective goes through, in terms of thinking other things or misleading clues.
What the other characters have done to provide these red herrings - obviously you want the motivation to naturally lead to the false deductions by the detective/reader, but it's also got to be a convincing mistake for the detective to make.
How the characters then react in a 'natural' way around the detective and the other characters as a result; i.e. general personal interactions.
Then make a start on the actual plotting, act-to-act or even scene-to-scene.

Any writing done before this would probably be best viewed simply as a warm-up; finding the style but not necessarily likely to appear in the final product. A whodunnit's only satisfying if you don't leave plot holes and character inconsistancies all over the place.

It's also probably nice to allow the reader to have chance to guess it...try not to rely on a final development which goes along the lines of

Nothing was making sense anymore. All my deductions had led to equally dead ends. The earlier evidence had been discredited and no-one had a sensible motive. With nothing left to go on, I did the only thing I could - I went back to the scene of the crime. I was wandering around, shaking my head, when suddenly...I saw it. That was it, that was what made everything make sense. I knew who the murderer was and why. Now all I had to do was round everyone up and make the final denoument.

...because that's just a bit @#$%&, even if you then go and tell the reader what the 'it' was later. If you can, come up with a plot that's hard to guess, but could still be logically deduced from the information you give to the reader - albeit only at the last minute, just as the detective does.

Of course, these are all just my opinions. I should also say I've not read much (any?) whodunnits, and watched only a few - let alone write any. These are just the steps that would seem logical to me as the necessary procedure for writing one, and making it satisfying to read.

Oh, and if you're doing about fanboys/girls and the objects of their affection, I assume you've seen the film Galaxy Quest? It's a brilliant and very funny send up of Star Trek and its fans - albeit focussing on its actors primarily. It should be something you'd really enjoy though, as well as possibly giving you more inspiration!

Many books are based on the life experiences of the writer. If you have no experiences then I suggest you make a few.
Dave Gorman tried to find all the Dave Gormans in the world.
Tony Hawks took a fridge round Ireland.
There still must be experiences that will fill a book that others will want to read about.

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Joint winner Colouring Competition 2007
and outright winner of the 3 time winner of the Ffestival Dodo Feeding competition.
Fforde Ffiesta Ffotos are here - [www.flickr.com]

Quote:

steeljam
Dave Gorman tried to find all the Dave Gormans in the world.

... tried to find 54 Dave Gormans from anywhere in the world (one for each card in a pack (including jokers.))

Sorry. I've got the tshirt.

That sort of thing is an option... but you'd have to hope you really can sell your novel afterwards, in order to pay off all the credit card bills built up through international travelling.

Quote:

Planet Cool
the story could only work if set up as a "whodunit"

I assume you've got some sort of plot outline... and it involves some sort of crime. If that's the case then all* you need to do is move around the relevations of who did what. LQ has a good point. All the neccessary information should be revealed fairly early on - although subtly, of course - the main chunk of the book can then be blind alleys, and whatever other bits of storyline you have, along with a few extra clues discovered along the way. A good whodunnit is a book you can re-read even once you know whodunnit - you can go back and pick up on the clues, and enjoy the other bits of story too.

* yeah... I know its quite a big 'all'

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That statement is either so deep it would take a lifetime to fully comprehend every particle of its meaning, or it is a load of absolute tosh. Which is it, I wonder?
Terry Pratchett, Hogfather



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2008 12:00PM by robcraine.

Well, I haven't been back here in a while, but my science-fiction novel is turning out well... I'm still on the first chapter because I wanted everything to be straight in my head before I started writing too much of it and because I've been busy with college, but so far I'm pretty happy about the way I've been writing and the things I'm coming up with so far. Basically, it's a parody of Star Wars (well, not quite... it's more of an affectionate "mocking homage" since the plot of my story is not parallel to the plot of the films themselves) and the most rabid, entertaining aspects of its fandom, including the fact that "Jedi" is apparently the fourth largest recognized religion in the UK (it's news like these that restore my faith in mankind) and one of my main characters is a thinly disguised George Lucas stand-in. The vampire comedy I had thought about writing is now shelved for the moment, because I want to work with something a bit more straight-forward before tackling a twisty mystery. Big thanks to everyone for your support... and thanks for the film suggestion. I saw Galaxy Quest... and loved it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 08:24PM by Planet Cool.

I was going to suggest writing about your dreams but I see that's already been covered-
you can also do it in verse if you like...

As for mysteries, "whodunnit" isn't the only way-
sometimes you already know who but need to answer the question of how or why...

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Indeed. THere's also the Columbo-style mystery, wherein we know who, how and why they did it but not how the detective will catch them. This has met with limited success outside of Columbo though.

I think that might be something to do with that "By the way" traps as he's walking out the door. Any other detective would look utterly stupid saying that.


Oh, wait a moment...