A friend just posted me the "top 100 books ever" list, and it looks a little like this. I can't quite believe the amount of rubbish that got in. Apologies in advance for the length of this post. ... there's more after the list
The Alchemist, Paulo Coelho
Alice's Adventures In Wonderland, Lewis Carroll
Animal Farm, George Orwell
Anna Karenina, Leo Tolstoy
Anne Of Green Gables, LM Montgomery
Artemis Fowl, Eoin Colfer
The BFG, Roald Dahl
Birdsong, Sebastian Faulks
Black Beauty, Anna Sewell
Bleak House, Charles Dickens
Brave New World, Aldous Huxley
Brideshead Revisited, Evelyn Waugh
Bridget Jones's Diary, Helen Fielding
Captain Corelli's Mandolin, Louis de Bernieres
Catch 22, Joseph Heller
The Catcher In The Rye, JD Salinger
Charlie And The Chocolate Factory, Roald Dahl
A Christmas Carol, Charles Dickens
The Clan Of The Cave Bear, Jean M Auel
Cold Comfort Farm, Stella Gibbons
The Colour Of Magic, Terry Pratchett
The Count Of Monte Cristo, Alexandre Dumas
Crime And Punishment, Fyodor Dostoyevsky
David Copperfield, Charles Dickens
Double Act, Jacqueline Wilson
Dune, Frank Herbert
Emma, Jane Austen
Far From The Madding Crowd, Thomas Hardy
Girls In Love, Jacqueline Wilson
The God Of Small Things, Arundhati Roy
The Godfather, Mario Puzo
Gone With The Wind, Margaret Mitchell
Good Omens, Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman
Goodnight Mister Tom, Michelle Magorian
Gormenghast, Mervyn Peake
The Grapes Of Wrath, John Steinbeck
Great Expectations, Charles Dickens
The Great Gatsby, F Scott Fitzgerald
Guards! Guards!, Terry Pratchett
Harry Potter And The Chamber Of Secrets, JK Rowling
Harry Potter And The Goblet Of Fire, JK Rowling
Harry Potter And The Philosopher's Stone, JK Rowling
Harry Potter And The Prisoner Of Azkaban, JK Rowling
His Dark Materials, Philip Pullman
The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, Douglas Adams
The Hobbit, JRR Tolkien
Holes, Louis Sachar
I Capture The Castle, Dodie Smith
Jane Eyre, Charlotte Brontë
Kane And Abel, Jeffrey Archer
Katherine, Anya Seton
The Lion, The Witch And The Wardrobe, CS Lewis
Little Women, Louisa May Alcott
Lord Of The Flies, William Golding
The Lord Of The Rings, JRR Tolkien
Love In The Time Of Cholera, Gabriel García Márquez
The Magic Faraway Tree, Enid Blyton
Magician, Raymond E Feist
The Magus, John Fowles
Matilda, Roald Dahl
Memoirs Of A Geisha, Arthur Golden
Middlemarch, George Eliot
Midnight's Children, Salman Rushdie
Mort, Terry Pratchett
Night Watch, Terry Pratchett
Nineteen-Eighty-Four, George Orwell
Noughts And Crosses, Malorie Blackman
Of Mice And Men, John Steinbeck
On The Road, Jack Kerouac
One Hundred Years Of Solitude, Gabriel García Márquez
Perfume, Patrick Süskind
Persuasion, Jane Austen
The Pillars Of The Earth, Ken Follett
A Prayer For Owen Meany, John Irving
Pride And Prejudice, Jane Austen
The Princess Diaries, Meg Cabot
The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists, Robert Tressell
Rebecca, Daphne Du Maurier
The Secret Garden, Frances Hodgson Burnett
The Secret History, Donna Tartt
The Shell Seekers, Rosamunde Pilcher
The Stand, Stephen King
The Story Of Tracy Beaker, Jacqueline Wilson
A Suitable Boy, Vikram Seth
Swallows And Amazons, Arthur Ransome
A Tale Of Two Cities, Charles Dickens
Tess Of The D'Urbervilles, Thomas Hardy
The Thorn Birds, Colleen McCollough
To Kill A Mockingbird, Harper Lee
A Town Like Alice, Nevil Shute
Treasure Island, Robert Louis Stevenson
The Twits, Roald Dahl
Ulysses, James Joyce
Vicky Angel, Jacqueline Wilson
War And Peace, Leo Tolstoy
Watership Down, Richard Adams | Discussion
The Wind In The Willows, Kenneth Grahame
Winnie-the-Pooh, AA Milne
The Woman In White, Wilkie Collins
Wuthering Heights, Emily Brontë

Artemis Fowl? The Clan of the Cave Bear? Harry Potters 1 - 4 (More a case of "name some books you've read ... umm .. duh... well the first book that springs to mind is ..."). Surely since HP is a series, "His Dark Materials" should be handled separately too? Full marks for consistency folks. The Faraway tree? Come on ... Faaarrr too much Terry Pratchett in there (more a list of bestsellers rather than best books?) Didn't like "Perfume". There's an awful lot of Roald Dahl in there ... I mean I like his work, but ...

Hmmm. I'm dissatisfied. Like the big man says "I don't trust statistics, Mr Croup"

Erm... should I point out that Carla did this thread at the time of the voting or should I just mumble away into the sunset?

Oops, sorry must have missed that one...

Just wanted to vent my shock and outrage and disappointment. Just ignore it.

If you scroll through the older messages you should be able to find a couple threads on the subject (probably even titled such that you can find them).



--------------
"I've often said that the difference between British and American SF TV series is that the British ones have three-dimensional characters and cardboard spaceships, while the Americans do it the other way around."
--Ross Smith

As a music critic, I'm well used to seeing (and being similarly wound up by!) similar lists to this relating to "the 100 best ever albums" (etc). I've even been featured in one or two myself in the past (blushes). They are ALL subject to current trends and fashions plus an element of favourtism on the part of the readership that was polled - inevitable really. I mean, who on this forum isn't going to list Jasper Fforde amongst his or her favourite ever writers? If you asked the Flower Arrangers Forum, who on there isn't going to include Flowers Arrangers Monthly as their favourite ever magazine? A crass example perhaps, but you take my point. Do we know who compiled the above list? S/F and Fantasy Readers Weekly subscribers, perchance?

Take with a liberal pinch of salt and don't think about it too much is my advice!

It's a pile of rubbish that doesn't add up to anyhthing it claimed to be.

Better off taking it with a New Labour pinch of salt...

(sorry, worrying outbreak of politics there)



PSD

==========

This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

Yes, definately looks more like a 'Name the Books' list than anything else.

BTW, what's the difference between New Labour and Old Labour?

Ah. Old Labour had something to do with socialism. New Labour is basically old Tories.

I'm going to stop this now, this isn't the place for politics.



PSD

==========

This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

Quite right. Thanks for the explanation. Now let's change the subject.

Quick, someone mention religion.....

Oh no not the current UK paper sport of bashing the (now unappointed due to his sexuality) bishop...


Bigots.



================

Has anyone noticed the distinct trend towards whatever was thrown at you at school in these lists? The same happened with the poetry.



PSD

==========

This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

We heard about that bishop here in Aus. We were told he decided not to take the position due to the need to 'counsel his parishioners'.

What?! You don't like Artemis Fowl? Why, that would have to be the best book about gun-toting fairies I have ever read!

And we have had to read Catcher In the Rye and Animal Farm at school.

Holes by Lois Sachar is definitely a fantastic book, with the story of a family conflict resolved seven generations later, and the spirit of a female bandit put to rest. She was previously a school teacher and gets an African-American slave to help her fix the school up, and then says:

Kissin' Kate: "Oh Joe, my heart is broken!"
Joe: "I can fix that."

She gets driven into a life of crime when - (that would be telling, wouldn't it?)



Post Edited (07-09-03 01:57)

---
Those who forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it.

No they're definitely having a laugh... Clan of the Cave Bear?

Come to that, New labour? New whut? Actually the dialogue must've gone like this: Maggie T.: "Oh Tone, my heart is broken!" Tony B.: "I can fix that." And he did. Sorry, no more politics, just couldn't resist!

Yep Ptolemy, think you're right there - isn't there always bias? Ho hum...

Maggie T.? That's too obvious, try M. Thatcher.

I'd sooner try gnawing my own leg off. Feh.

Re: 100 Top Books - Yes, there is a lot of pap up there (and far too much evidence of people just naming books so as to look clever). 'The Catcher in the Rye' for one, terrible over-rated self-gratification that it is. 'The Clan of the Cave Bear' must sell well, otherwise Jean Auel wouldn't keep churning out sequels, but I too don't see why it belongs on the list. And 'Ulysses'? That's only there 'cos no one understands what the hell it's meant to be, but is too afraid to say so!



-----------------------------------------------
"Whisky-wa-wa," I breathed - she was dressed as Biffo the Bear.

IIRC, wasn't this 'favourite' books and weren't schools encouraged to get involved. Hence the skewing towards childrens books. It's very different from the best book of 20th century list people voted for a couple of years back.

Lists like these can be easily manipulated. The truth - now it can be told. There was a list done by Orange recently, naming the 30 best books ever written by women. A friend of mine (and several other people) had just had her first book published. And, er, it got onto the list. Tactical voting, see. *

The list Milo quotes was propagated by the BBC and the voter base was much larger than the Orange one, but because The Big Read (as the beeb call it) was heavily promoted in schools, the list that emerged was as you see it. It doesn't mean anything.

* Family Bites, by Lisa Williams. It's pretty good, actually; I think many peeps here would enjoy it. Just avert your eyes from the shocking bad cover.



- - -
I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

Even my own private list of favourite books varies according to my mood, the years, and so on.......
Ok, some will always be present, but most just come and go and return again.

Big John - re Catcher in the Rye, thats just your opinion. I read it - somewhere around the age of 13 I think, and my opinion then was that it was a 'cool' book and I refuse to be embarrassed by the fact that I read and enjoyed it. I'm not certain from my foggy memory that it was written for the 'adult' market anyway. Books come and go in fashion just like everything else for example the resurgence of things like prawn cocktail and black forest gateaux which were incredibly naff in the nineties now being revived 'with a spin' in a recipe book near you. and as for flares.... the book in question may not meet with your sophisticated tastes now but I think it is difficult to defend your implication that all those how many, thousands at least, who read it and enjoyed it are too naive to have a valid opinion. and anyway isn't every novel written for the authors 'self gratification' or else why is everyone pounding away at trying to get published - not for world peace and to feed the starving Anyway I'm sure you are a very nice person really.

It's the BBC Big Read launched a couple of months ago. The idea is that by October, they will have whittled the list down to 20 and then all the people will ring in and vote for their favourite book and that will have the title of the Nation's Favourite Read.

Oh joy!

Sales of some of the titles have increased somewhat since the launch - Penguin are doing well as a lot of them are published in their Classic imprint. I like to amuse myself by going into bookshops, finding where they are displaying the Big Read 100 and then looking for Katherine by Anya Seton. Haven't found it yet!!

Actually l'm the only person I know (apart from my friend Jan in Liverpool) who has read this book and can give a plot outline. First printed in 1954, it tells the story of Katherine Swynford and ...............*notices gentle snoring from fellow Fforumites and goes off to make a cup of tea*