What fascinates me is that a lot of words and spellings that are thought of as being peculiarly American - "howdy" and "varmint" for example - are actually Olde English words which have dropped out of usage or changed out of all recognition back home but continued to be used in the New World (I'm sure there's a technical term for such words, but can't for the life of me remember it now).

colloquialisms

Nope... that's not the one I was thinking of. It's more along the lines of "orphans", ie words that got left behind, but it's not that either. Grrr! I'll be awake all night thinking about it now!

I've also heard that there are (or at least were 10 or 20 years ago) isolated communities in the Appalachian mountains where people were still speaking something much closer to Elizabethan English than modern English, and the vowels hadn't shifted in a lot of words.

So it follows that if one were to actually time travel to pre-vowel shift Britian, the people there would sound like hillbillies. Somehow I don't think that would go over too well at Reniassance Faires here in the States.



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"I've often said that the difference between British and American SF TV series is that the British ones have three-dimensional characters and cardboard spaceships, while the Americans do it the other way around."
--Ross Smith

actually, there's an island in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay called Tangier Island that they speak with an Elizabethan accent. The island was 'discovered' by John Smith (of Pocohontas fame) and things have stayed that way since the late 1600's

The history of Tangier Island, Virginia

That's true, Magda! I've heard that too! And in Patagonia there's an entire valley where people still speak Welsh.

Actually I think I have the word I was thinking of now... catachresis. It means "drift of meaning". The classic examples are I suppose "vest" and "pants", which mean entirely different things in America and England now, but in Elizabethan times meant the same on both sides of the pond (ie the American versions are technically correct; the word's meaning has "drifted" here in the UK)

there are places in Nova Scotia where the brogue is so thick you can barely understand it....it's lovely!

If anyone has been to Nova Scotia, it is a wonderful place. I love the people! And Halifax is amazing! We did an 8 day 'round the province trip for our honeymoon. And there are distinct language/accent variances throught the area. It's cool!

Ptolemy

The word at the back of your mind couldn't have been 'fossils' could it? Philologists/etymologists often use this term to refer to very ancient words preserved in modern languages.

Catachresis sounds a lot more impressive though.

I seem to remember banging on about the ancient pedigree of assorted English 4-letter words in a thread on here a couple of weeks back (could have been longer . . .) -- if you're interested it's in the thread "Apology to Jon", or you could just do a search on the word fart . . .



Jesus saves; Buddha does incremental backup.

To return to the original subject, I get a very generous staff discount on my lingerie. I've got a splendid collection of improbably loud frillies as a result. Cordelia Flakk, eat your heart out!



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That which does not kill us makes us stranger.
(Llewelyn the dragon, Ozy and Millie)

Sarah

The use of "Fall" for "Autumn" is traceable to at least one pre-emigration English dialect.

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"This was willed where what is willed... can get rather silly."

The only freebies I get out of work is getting invited to clients' Christmas parties . . . which gets a bit tiresome when you've got 7 in a fortnight. The joys of self-employment.

I spose I do get free print samples off printers etc though -- they're not very exciting. Anyone for a fascinating selection of polypropylene binders and boxes?



Jesus saves; Buddha does incremental backup.

Guy mate, (1) thanks for the word "Fossils"! That's definitely the one I was initially searching for - good man! (2) Hmmm, your polypropylene binders or Sarah's lingerie? Tough decision... can I think about it awhile? OK, done - nope, I think I'll pass on those ta!

Shakespeare used the term 'fall' for 'Autumn', allegedly.



PSD

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This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

Not sure about that but Shakespeare definitely used "trash" to mean rubbish, "hog" for pig and the expression "I guess".

Gotten is also Olde English; usually thought of as quaintly American it now only survives here in the phrase "ill-gotten gains"

Ah, is this another outbreak of quoting from 'Mother Tongue' - I do that here from time to time too...



PSD

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This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

Warning: the following posting contains text that some might find offensive. This is purely unintentional and included for illustrative purposes only.

Talking of Shakespeare, hands up all those who are familiar with the mistakes that appear in his work? For example, he apparently thought "illustrious" was the opposite of "lustrous".

Worse still the poet Robert Browning made a complete faux pas in 'Pippa Passes' (circa 1840), the one that starts "God's in his heaven, all's right with the world'

If you read on, it runs thus:

Then owls and bats
cowls and twats
monks and nuns, in a cloister's moods
adjourn to the oak-stump pantry

- apparently the offending word meant exactly the same then as it does now, but somehow or another Browning had gotten hold [nested pun alert!] of the idea that it referred to an item of nun's headgear. However nobody during his lifetime could think of a suitably delicate way of explaining his mistake to him....

Dd gets to blag several books a year in return for writing reviews for some worthy but dull educational magazine. She's never blagged anything I wanted to read except Mallorie Blackman's Noughts and Crosses which is very good. The latest one was some boring book about Tolkein.

Speaking of reviews everyone, I just noticed the Swindon web doesn't have anything on Jasper's books (talking about dragging the thread off subject - love the Browning thing Ptolemy - bet some kind friend told him later and he was mortified...) so I emailed them to suggest they put something on & they promptly trumped my by suggesting I wrote 500 words. Eep. I mean, I'd love to do it, but do youse yins have an etiquette about these things? If there's a designated writer just let me know... (have emailed Jasper to check it's ok btw).

Hmm I finally found my login - this is me btw! Wonder if I can change the ID?
Alison S

I think our designated writer is Jon, isn't it? Not that that need stop anyone else! :-)



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That which does not kill us makes us stranger.
(Llewelyn the dragon, Ozy and Millie)

Sarah