anyone else seen this about the new 'ideas store' in Bow?

[news.bbc.co.uk]

thoughts?

I've long believed that libraries should be places where reading a book woul;d be pleasant. Too many are dark and dingy places with hardly any seats or decent lighting. Fluorescent tubes don't count - they really hurt my eyes after half an hour. Having a coffee shop is a good idea- people are going to take books home with them and get them mucky anyway (and there's endless rumours of bacon being used as a bookmark) so a coffee shop won't hurt. My ideal library would have the following:

Lots of natural light

Coffee shop, with a few huge sofas to curl up on with a good book

Comfy chairs widely scattered throughout the building

A reference room with all the dictionaries, encyclopedias and atlases you could require. This room ought to be designated as a quiet room for those who wished to work, and would have proper desks available

A decent cataloguing system

Staff who encouraged people to discuss books a lot more, rather than taking a book out and running away home

Oh yeah, and a decent range of newspapers.

I reckon they're on to the right idea, but without visiting it's hard to tell. I suspect that getting people into the library is half the battle of getting them reading - if you're going for a coffee you might as well pick up a book to flick through while you do it - and a library should be there to be enjoyed, while having the facilities to enable people to work if that's what they're there for. The one problem is when the budget disappears on promoting the place rather than the books in it - there's nothing worse than a library full of Daphne Farquitt (I never asked, is this a pun?) wannabes and out of date reference books, whilst having nothing to actually read.

(My biggest annoyance as an eight year-old was not being able to borrow a single book on dinosaurs that wasn't hopelessly out of date. All the ones in Stratford still believed that sauropods wouldn't have been able to live anywhere but swamps due to their 'weak' teeth and massive weight that would have crushed their legs, and that dinosaurs were uniformly slow and stupid. Even at eight I was aware this was stupid.)

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I noted the banana loaf too, so it's good to see certain traditions being maintained. (and where's Ook, btw?)



PSD

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This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

that's interesting. I think it would be a real dis-service to not have actual physical books. However, I'm all for keeping one's mind active and continuing to learn using other methods.

BUT, there's nothing like diving into a book and getting completely immersed. Something that is missed if you try to read it on a computer. I think it has something to do with the flicker of the screen and the hum of the computer fans, but it's much harder to get "lost" in the story that way. If you pick up a book and don't have the distractions of the hum and flicker, I think your imagination is allowed to take over and transport you into that world.

I also think that today's children are over-stimulated. They don't get to use their own imaginations but instead, have sights and sounds continually thrust at them. And people wonder why their children are "hyperactive". Could it be because their minds are aching to break free and explore from within? or just to rest? That and the fact that their time tends to be so overly structured with dance lessons, soccer practice, music lessons, organized 'play' dates, etc that they never get to just play. Shoot, here in the US, elementary school children barely get a recess to play outside. And they wonder why the kids can't sit still in class!

Kids today are too busy and just don't get to relax and play. And as neat as a lot of this electronic media is for learning. I think as responsible parents, we have to watch that the children aren't getting over-stimulated. I think kids just need to have a chance to be kids!

<stepping off of soap box>

I think the Ideas Store is a neat concept, but perhaps needs to be geared more towards older children and adults. But please don't lose the real physical books. They're too important!

PSD: I have seen the bacon used as a bookmark. It was not pretty.

I've also found used nappies tucked behind shelves, damp patches on seats where the tramps have been sitting, and much more besides. The joys of being a library assistant in a public library in one of the poorer bits of Newcastle...

Saying that, it was a great library. We knew most people by name, usually had time for a natter and a 'ooh, have you read this one?' conversation, plus my all time favourite moment when a reader came in to ask if we had a tape of an opera that he didn't know, but he could hum it. I spotted it as the aria from 'la wally' by catalini (as the french film Diva is amongst my favourites). He looked stunned that this 'youth' would know anything about opera.

Lucky for me he hit on the one bit of opera I'd heard of....

My other favourite moment was telling the Chief Librarian of Newcastle's mother that she owed us a fine. She pulled herself up, looked me in the eye and said with a steely voice 'Do you know who I am?'. To which I replied no, and it didn't really matter, the books were late.
'My son is the Chief Librarian'.
'Well, he pays his fines when his books are late', I reply. The look on her face was priceless...

The Ideas' Store hasn't lost the books, they're just plugging the computer aspect a bit as people seem to think this is 'exciting' and they use it to drag people in. If you look at the photos it appears to have decently stocked shelves (look through the fishtank!)

I agree that books give you something more, and I'd argue that it's because of the sheer volume of information available in one chunk. You actually have to pause and think. On the web you chase an idea or a definition and the answer is there instantly, usually in a tiny little chunk. With an encyclopedia you have to ferret through a whole load of things that may drag you away, but that also gives you time to digest the last chunk of information properly.

As for not being able to lose yourself in a novel on computer I suspect part of the difference is because you can't get comfortable when reading it. Try reading a novel at a desk with the book at a constant height and you'll see what I mean. If you could curl up with a computer then at least part of the difference would disappear. However there is something else with a paperback, and I think it's due to having less distractions with the page - no flashing lights, icons going off or opportunities to blast off an email or check the Fforum.

One last thought about Twila's last thought - if you drag in the older kids and adults, then their kids will see them enjoying books - and that's the greatest spur to reading you'll get.


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On a related note, and it seems to fit here, I was on the train on Saturday and this toddler sat next to me and I kept her entertained. She was obviously pretty smart for about three and a half, and we were talking about Winnie-ther-Pooh and Wol and that lot, and about the Railway Engines (and I was talking to the kid, not to her parents. I'm like that, just humour me) and after about half an hour it dawned on me that she had never been read the actual books, just seen the videos. I was shocked - I learnt to read with those books (them and Dr Seuss). It seemed such a shame, as the books are by far the superior of the video versions. I'm sure her parents must have read to her though as she was bright as a button, but still... Anybody who has kids - buy them the collected A A Milne works and read them to your kids every night - especially the poems. The girl really liked my recital of Disobedience (I was showing off, really - but it''s a joy of a poem)

(James James
Morrison Morrison
Wetherby George du Pree
Took great care of his mother,
Though he was ony three.
James James, Morrison Morrison,
said to his mother said he,
"You must never go down to the end of the town,
if you don't go down with me")

Teach kids that books are enjoyable and they'll teach themselves to read.



PSD

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This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

Eddie gets 3 stories a night before bed. Admittedly one is a Bob the Builder annual, but he's had Thomas the Tank Engine, Winnie the Pooh, various Janet and Allan Ahlberg and the like.

As Rob will no doubt tell you, he loves his books. I was making tea the other night and he'd settled himself down on the floor, back to the wall next to his basket of books, taking them out one by one, talking to them and telling me what he could see. He does have some videos, but is more than happy to bring you a book and have you read it to him.

Long may it continue, I say.

My best conversation in a libray went

"Go on, print it out"
"It'll be a laugh"
"He shouldn't be looking at it anyway"
"Go on"
"Stick which computer it is on it"
"We can't do that!"
"Why not? Look, just copy it to Paint, type "Printed for user xxx" and press print."
"stunned silence"
"I can't believe you just printed that out!"
"Sod that, lets go and see what happens"

I should explain that we'd rigged up the computer in the library so we could spy on any computer in the school, and had found a third year surfing for porn during a lesson, and helpfully printed it out for him. In his lesson. With his name on it.

In retrospect the fact that a whole bunch of giggling sixth-formers happened to troop in just as it was discovered probably saved the kid's bacon, as it rather tipped off the teacher that something was suspicious. Fortunately he never worked out what we were capable of. Even more fortunately, neither has the kid involved, who's now bigger than me.



PSD

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This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

Glad to see Eddie being a young reader. Apparently I could recite books before I could read - and even turning the page at the right place. Worrying...

Apparently they're rather good for teething on too, and cookery books are great for babies to look at (lots of bright pictures)



PSD

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This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

he never really stood a chance in our house, given all the books in it. Plus his dad has been known to go mad in a 3 for 2 sale even when he's got 5 books onthe go at once...

Eddie does love his books. He insists on reading every time I'm round there. He's never asked to watch a vid.

My sister knew her books off by heart. Ivor the Engine was her favourite.
"Not long ago, in the top left hand corner of Wales there lived an engine..." I could go on. It's amazing what sticks in your mind (she's 25 this summer). She was a real stickler. If you tried to miss out a bit so you could finish quicker, there'd be hell to pay !

Is Allan Ahlberg 'Please Mrs Butler' ? I like that one.

the Ahlberg one he's got is 'Each Peach Pear Plum' (which I now know backwards).

He's also got a book called 'Whatever Next'!

Ah. Ros had that too.

'I spy Tom Thumb' !

Tom Thumb in the cupboard,
I spy Mother Hubbard.

Mother Hubbard in the cellar,
I spy Cinderella

and so on.

He's also fond of 'The Very Hungry Caterpillar' which I was somewhat surprised to find was published in 1969, and is therefore older than me!

he's got a groovy site too, with an animated caterpillar

www.eric-carle.com

I saw a great kids book a few weeks ago, about a dragon with hiccups (or possibly sneezes) - and all the other animals didn't want him about as he kept on setting fire to their trousers. The drawing of a group of bare-arsed animals all stood there with pink hairy legs was a true treasure.



PSD

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This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

Famously, The Very Hungry Caterpillar wasn't published until ol' Dubya was in College. Amusingly, he named it as his favourite book from childhood...



PSD

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This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

When I was in elementary school, I won a pack of bubble gum by being apparently the only one in my school who could properly identify the source for a quote from "The House on Pooh Corner" which had been read over the loudspeakers. Apparently everyone else just put down "Winnie the Pooh". Sigh.

I'm told that before I learned to read by myself (at age 3), I used to go up to someone, stand on their feet, hit them in the knees with a book, and chant "Book! Book! Read! Read!" until they'd read it to me. A subtle child I was....



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&quot;I've often said that the difference between British and American SF TV series is that the British ones have three-dimensional characters and cardboard spaceships, while the Americans do it the other way around.&quot;
--Ross Smith

I could give a whole load of reasons why the Disney version is inferior, but I fear I may be repeating myself.



PSD

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This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

I have to confess, I couldn't have got any further with 'Each Peach Pear Plum'. I have found 'Please Mrs Butler' which is by Allan Ahlberg.


Please Mrs Butler
This boy Derek Drew
Keeps Copying my work, Miss.
What shall I do?

Go and sit in the hall, dear.
Go and sit in the sink.
Take yours books on the roof, my lamb.
Do whatever you think.

Please Mrs Butler
This boy Derek Drew
Keeps taking my rubber, miss.
What shall I do?

Keep it in your hand, dear.
Hide it up your vest.
Swallow it if you like, my love.
Do what you think best.

Please Mrs Butler
This boy Derek Drew
Keeps calling rude names, Miss.
What shall I do?

Lock yourself in the cupboard, dear.
Run away to sea.
Do whatever you can, my flower.
But don?t ask me!

Still no one able to tell me where 'As I was coming down the stair' is from?

I have a little boy who is autistic and talks about once a year. A lot of people who ought to know what they are talking about think that nothing goes on in his head, but there is no truth in that at all. I was reading 'Cottleston Pie' to his big sister

Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie
A fly can't bird but a bird can fly -----

And Joshua burst out laughing. I didn't even know he'd been listening; he just crept up on me and his sister from behind when he heard me reading.

As I was coming down the stair
I met a man who wasn't there;
He wasn't there again today:
I wish that man would go away