Why is Humpty-Dumpty apparently still confined to the company of the Nursery Rhyme chararcters? Is this purely due to origins rather than roles? (Racism!) Shouldn't his scene in 'Alice in Wonderland' entitle him to all of the rights _ such as access to the 'Character Exchange Programme' _ that are given to the other characters who have appeared in novels? Or are there TWO Humpty-Dumpties, the nursery-rhyme version and the 'Alice' one?

I wonder how well the Bradshaws get on with Tarzan & his Apes... and whether Mrs Bradshaw is related to the Mrs Carruthers who's mentioned in an the old joke.

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"This was willed where what is willed... can get rather silly."



Post Edited (07-02-03 14:23)

Woah - that's a question to ask Mr Fforde at Brighton!

This question has been asked before, if not so specifically; that is, if the same characters are written by two different authors (or even in different books by the same author) are there more than one of them in BookWorld, and what would happen if they met?

Actually I think WOLP answers part of the question; generics can become any character necessary, and if there are a multiplicity of Mrs. Danvers I do not think we need to boggle at two Humpties.

Um, what's the Carruthers joke, then?



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I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

A: Have you heard the latest about Carruthers?
B: No, what?
A: He's married an Ape.
B: Good grief! A female Ape, or a male one?
A: A female one of course _ There's nothing queer about Carruthers."


Re multiple versions of characters: And the multiple libraries that appear alongside each other in WOLP raise the question of whether there's a different version of each character for every language into which a book gets translated? Maybe only for the speaking parts? What if the character is actually specified as being multilingual? What about dialects, do the UK & USA editions of a book have different people playing their characters?

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"This was willed where what is willed... can get rather silly."



Post Edited (07-02-03 17:56)

Re there being multiple copies of some characters, in different works _ There are a couple of scenes in WOLP (apart from the ones with the Mrs Danvers, which were due to an admitted mistake by the management...) that hint at this being the case... The Greek heroes who make a living by licensing remakes of their stories (which, as any actual acting by those same heroes isn't mentioned, presumably feature Generics filling their roles) and the fact that when the original (?) Perkins & Snell were both killed their roles were transferred to a pair of Generics who'd already been playing them in a tribute book...

Incidentally, I wonder whether a Generic could be trained to replace a "real" person in the Outland? Presumably so... (And maybe that's where some or all of Saddam Hussein's doubles came from?)

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"This was willed where what is willed... can get rather silly."

I do have to say I did laugh at the end of WOLP - the reference to the nursery rhyme characters living in Caversham Heights is a cheeky reference to one of JFfs own, as yet unpublished, books! He explained it to us at Microcon - Jack Spratt is living in Reading, and has to solve the murder of Humpty Dumpty, with other nursery rhyme characters putting in appearances. Does this reference mean that a publisher has now accepted the book?



I drink to drown my sorrows. Unfortunately they've learnt how to swim.

Oh. Of course.

I like the fact Jasper no longer fills in all the details. Like when he mentions bloopholes. "If an author were stupid enough to write about 'Daffodils in summer'..." which is exactly what Jasper did in TEA with Wordsworth and Polly.

There are so many references to things that have been mentioned in various interviews and pieces around here that I feel sorry for anyone trying to work out why the hell 'nakijima' could be used to test the vyrus....



PSD

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This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

Yes, I spotted the Nakijima joke too -- nearly fell off me chair laughing.

I got the distinct impression all the way through that I was missing hundreds of references -- I'll have to reread it more slowly.



Jesus saves; Buddha does incremental backup.

yup, the Nakijima joke and the daffodils in summer sent me snortling so hard I woke Jon up from a deep slumber. He was so glad when I finished reading WOLP so he could get a good night's sleep!

I must confess I couldn't get lost in the flow and lie back and enjoy it because I was constantly reference spotting. An annotators lot .....

I haven't noted them systematically yet cos I've only read it in proof so far, and I need the pukka edition to prodice a definitive list. But I will.



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I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

When I reread it I'll send my obscure references over to help you. Did you get the Slaithwaites okay?

(the rest of the fforum boggles)



PSD

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This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

I did, sorry I didn't reply, you caught me just as I was logging off and then I forgot next time I logged in. I shan't be able to atend to it until after WN is out of the way, though.



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I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

I giggled at the name of the character who first appears with a head in a bag. And I'm sure that the 'Slaughtered Lamb' is the name of the pub in 'An American Werewolf in London'.

Oh, it is, it is (with Brian Glover and Rik Mayall in it). But I wouldn't go there if I was you ....



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I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

Jon, I can help with the reference to the Harris Bacon Factory on page 78 if you don't have that one nailed down already...

In return, for my own peace of mind if nothing else, is the misspelling of 'Environment' as 'eviornment' in Captain Nemo's advert on page 158 intentional, is there a mispeling vyrus on the loose & I've mislaid the plot, or merely a typo? Anyone know?!

OK, I asked Jasper* about Humpty-Dumpty... He said that the one in 'Alice in Wonderland' probably is a separate person rather than the OralTrad (& 'Nursery Crime') one. Translations usually do have new casts, but if any characters can already speak the new editions' languages (or learn them for the purpose, as the man in the washing machine instructions was doing) then they might be allowed to fill the same roles again.


(*at Waterstones, in Brighton, yesterday evening)

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"This was willed where what is willed... can get rather silly."

Can someone explain the nakijima reference to me? I'm awaiting the reference list for WOLP with eager anticipation - there's so much in there that I *know* must be a joke, but I just don't get it <wobbles lip>



I drink to drown my sorrows. Unfortunately they've learnt how to swim.

Jasper misspelled it. See Upgrade No. 10

[www.jasperfforde.com]