I was wondering about that too - whether it was Death or not that she saw. But after thinking about it for a while, I actually felt that it might just simply be Thursday's Fear. As in, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself," or, for you younger people, how Harry is more afraid of Dementors than Voldemort, and Lupin is impressed at his wisdom in that what he fears most is - fear. Thursday says, "I could hide it if I chose ...You asked me to gaze upon my fears, now, you may join me."

We can all choose to hide our fears. And she doesn't gaze upon it, does she? She turns away. So Aornis faces her (Thursday's) fear(s). I thought it might be that. Abstract, I know, but just MHO.

And incidentally, I read a story when I was young where a witch sends a soldier into trees or something, where he finds bronze, silver, and gold guarded by larger and larger cats. She wants a tinderbox. The final cat (I think) had eyes as big as dinner plates, and that's what Martin's footprints being the size of dinner plates made me think of. Of course, it's been decades since I read the story, and my reading material when I was young was varied enough that I might not find it again, but I am going to give it a try. I think it might be Andersen. Simply because I had an anthology of Andersen that I was fascinated with because it had the REAL Little Mermaid on the front. I read it a lot

With regard to the "peripheral" visions, I now know (since reading the Thursday books) that these are glimpses of people/things moving through time. Live 'n' learn!

My brother (three years older than I) was a physics major in college (read: really, really practical and logical). When I was very small, maybe 3 or 4, I asked him if he was afraid of the dark. He thought for a few moments and replied, "I'm not afraid of the dark; I'm afraid of what might be IN the dark."

Well said, bro. Keep running for those lightswitches.

'The Tinder Box' story referred to by mebbido and latiam is indeed by Andersen and a very strange story (for Andersen especially) it is.

It's not cats in the story but three dogs and the first one has eyes as big as plates; the second as millstones; the third as 'the Round Tower' (a lighthouse is a round tower!). They guard treasure which the soldier happily steals and he then frivolously kills the witch who led him to it rather than give her the Tinder Box (flint match box) as he had previously agreed.

The soldier eventually summons the dogs to abduct the princess each night so that he can 'kiss' her (nudge nudge, wink wink) while she sleeps and then to kill (!!!) his prospective in-laws. The princess doesn't turn a hair at any of this and happily marries him a week later. The dogs attend the wedding and sit at the table...
"...where they sat staring with all their eyes."

An ominous and chilling ending if ever there was one.

I think that the beast in the lighthouse is far too abstract to be Big Martin (or anyone/thing else). Rather, as some of you have said above, it seems to be some sort of personification of irrational nightmare Fear.

I am actually more curious about Aornis herself. (I don't know if there is another thread going where this would be more appropriate, so I'm sorry in advance if it's a little off topic). Anyway, I noticed that the Hades siblings are (fairly obviously) all named after the rivers of Hell in classical mythology: The Acheron, The Styx, The Lethe, The Phlegethon, The Cocytus, and ... The Aornis? The name sounded plausible enough and, since I am a huge mythology buff, I immediately went to look it up. I looked in all the usual sources (Bulfinch's Mythology, Dante's Inferno, etc.) All of the other rivers were clearly listed -- but not a mention of little Aornis.

I think that this might be a very sly joke from JFf, in the same vein as his "changing the ending of Jane Eyre tho the ending we know," only far less obvious: sure Aornis isn't in any of the books now, but how can you be sure that she wasn't there before and you (and everyone else) have just forgotten about her?

Did anyone else notice this?



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Metaphors be with you!

[en.wikipedia.org] - Wikipedia entry on "Aornis"

"The Aornis river is one of the many rivers of Hades and one of the five tributary rivers of the river Styx."

I would tentatively suggest that you are, in this case, reading too much into it. While the entry does appear to have been written by a Fforde Fan, Google did turn up several other references that have no apparent Nextian influence, including a limerick that I think I might go and post in the limericks thread.

Incidentally, looking at the Wikipedia entry on "Styx", I see that it does indeed mention six rivers of Hades, but no Aornis. The six rivers are Styx, Phlegethon, Acheron, Cocytus, Lethe, and Eridanos. Maybe Aornis is an alternative name for Eridanos?

Anyway, here's the main non-Nextian reference I found:

[www.marveldirectory.com]

It's a Marvel Comics website, so while it may not be regarded as particularly definitive, at least it proves that Fforde didn't make it up himself. Interestingly enough, it is the waters of the Lethe, not the Aornis, that are mentioned as inducing loss of memory. I guess Aornis just sounded more feminine.

[How DO you pronounce "Lethe", anyway? Leth-ay? Leth? Leeth? Leth-uh? How?]

EDIT: I managed to find an archived early mirror of the Aornis page from Wikipedia, showing that the Fforde part was added later, so Aornis was there before Fforde.



Post Edited (11-01-05 02:48)

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"We are born alone, and we die alone. In between, how about a drink?"
~ Mr. Nutty

Hmm... I'm still a little sceptical... maybe Aornis is just a lesser known plutonian river, but then why isn't it in any book sources... and how did Dante miss it?

Anyway, Lethe has always been the river of forgetfulness that the virtuous dead drank from before entering the peaceful fields of Elysium, a soothing balm that allowed them to forget the pains and sorrows of their earthly lives... (sorry, I lapsed a bit into the poetical there, mythology tends to do that to me now and then. *cough* Where was I, again?)

In answer to your question about pronounciation, Lethe is pronounced "LETH-ee."



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Metaphors be with you!

Hmm. I always thought it was pronounced LEEth, with the 'th' being a soft one, as in 'that' or 'the' rather than hard as in 'thought' or 'math'. Come to think of it, basically 'lathe' or 'loathe' with a different vowel. Am I wrong?

Puck has it right, Lethe is pronounced 'lethy' or 'lethee' with the stress on the first syllable. The e is sounded the same as the e in 'me'.

It is the root of the word 'lethargy'.

I looked it up just to be sure, and it seems it's actually "LEETH-ee" or "LEETH-i" (long e or short i, which sound similar when speaking quickly) but the final "e" is definitely pronounced. It is a Greek word, and they tend to be a lot more phonetic than English.

I think I was thinking "LETH-ee" before (with the short e) because of the word "lethargy" which has "Lethe" as its root word.

While looking in the dictionary, I also came across the word "Aoristic" which means "indefinite" or "indeterminate" (it refers to the Greek word "aoristos," which means "indefinite" and is also a verb tense). I don't know if it could be a source for the name "Aornis," but the meaning seems appropriate.



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Metaphors be with you!

Oh, sorry Robert, I didn't see your post! I think you must have posted while I was typing my bit about "Aoristic." Funny, we both came up with the same thing about "lethargy." (Incidentally, have you ever read Norton Juster's The Phantom Tollbooth? He puns "lethargy" in the name of the Lethargarians who inhabit the Doldrums. I loved that book when I was little -- still do!)

I think the "LETH-ee" pronounciation might be the more Anglicized version, but still acceptable (it's the one I've always used).



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Metaphors be with you!

"Aornis" in greek mythology seems to be a strange thing. Googling I could only find two spanish sources who seemed to be in the least reliable. There I found references to Robert Graves' "Greek Mythology", and what do you think came up when I googled "Aornis Robert Graves"?

An old forum posting...

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"I could only find two spanish sources..."

You'll forgive me, I'm sure, if I ask what the relevance of this sentence was. Is Spanish the Ultimate Language of Truth, or something?



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"We are born alone, and we die alone. In between, how about a drink?"
~ Mr. Nutty

Don't ask me, I was suprised myself. It was those two spanish-speeking sites that were discussing greek mythology on a serious level, while all english sites Google gave back had no scholastic sources mentioned - they all seemed to be fansites for one or the other fantasy game.

Ok... none of this is meant to be authoritative in any way... but a bit of searching reveals Lake Avernus.... which the other rivers seem to flow into. Now Avernus (birdless) appears to be the roman equivalent of Aornos (Greek for Birdless) which possibly has Aornis as an alternative (incorrect?) spelling.

It seems to be in virgil... who I understand was meant to be an authority on this sort of thing... http://www.tkline.freeserve.co.uk/VirgilAeneidVI.htm#_Toc2242927

rob



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That statement is either so deep it would take a lifetime to fully comprehend every particle of its meaning, or it is a load of absolute tosh. Which is it, I wonder?
Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

"Don't ask me, I was suprised myself. It was those two spanish-speeking sites that were discussing greek mythology on a serious level,"

Ah. I misunderstood you - I thought you meant that you had been <i>looking</i> for Spanish sites, but had only been able to find two.



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&quot;We are born alone, and we die alone. In between, how about a drink?&quot;
~ Mr. Nutty

OK, I think I understand now! Avernus I definitely have heard of, and I am fairly certain that Dante uses that spelling too (only natural if he's getting it from Virgil). It makes sense that Aornis is a mistranslation, especially going from the Greek alphabet to the Roman. I made the mistake of only looking for rivers, so Lake Avernus didn't even register. I see the resemblance now, though. I am glad to have that one cleared up!



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Metaphors be with you!