Wow, this is better than fencing, or boxing, or wrestling. First it was an attack on the author of an amazing novel, then an attack on Germans, then on Americans, then just some general random discussion...amazing.

Being an avid Fforde ffan, I must say that I'm sure the good man would never portray a foreigner in a mean way; I believe that he was trying to add a bit of colorful colloquialism to give Bismark more character, and didn't mean anything by it!

Being half German/Swiss, I must say that the stereotypes aren't to be taken seriously. However, it is true that Germans don't take ice in their drinks. I know...shameful.

Being a native Texan and proud American, I must say that I find the stereotype against my homeland quite unfair. You used a stereotype instead of facts and numbers, which I find odd.

Since I live in Texas, I see people portray Texans in an archaic way. They talk like this: "I'm a hankerin to go kill me some vermin so the cowhands can eat good vittles tonight, ya'll! Whoopee!" And I think that it's hilarious! I don't have an accent (no more than Yorkshiremen or New Yorkers), but I understand that people have fun with colorful Western characters.

Yep. That's my opinion. Please don't take me seriously, because that could get dangerous.

Well I'm quite proud of the way my country and its people (Wales and the Welsh) are portrayed in these books, even though they bear *is it 'bear' or 'bare'? I could never get those right.... just like weary and wary, always used to get them mixed up but think I know what's what now* little resemblance to reality :-)

The Welsh language bits are correct though, by the way. Just in case anyone wondered...

Just wanted to say that....

Doesn't Mr Fforde live in Wales?

I feel in general that no one came convincingly write accents. I don't mind if nations are made fun of, as long as it remains for fun. Others may differ from this point of view.

I anyway correct what I'm reading unless I really concentrate.

~~So, is it really worth spending years trying to master a language without a chance to speak it to anyone, and possessing nothing worth reading in it, when the only time you will ever actually use it is to...~~



Sorry to post to an older thread, but, Inkwolf, when I read your comment I immediately thought of Latin. I mean, one could actually rewrite the tail end of your question with '…write rude and amusing bumper stickers that only priests and chemists will understand, impress the chemist's daughter's father, or (in rare circumstances) interpret the E PLURIBUS UNIM stamped on the back of a quarter for a second grader.

Actually, Latin was more insidious than it was strong. True, it had its heyday in the latter half of the Roman Empire, but it was usually assimilated into native dialects rather than replacing them. (That's how we got all the Romance languages.) The only language that resisted the Latin influence was Greek, and as late as Maccabean times Greek was still the predominate 'international' language. I guess my point is this: Languages live and die but few become great. That's why I've made my second language one that will live on as long as there are unwary parents walking the earth. That's right! Pig Latin for ever! Ityay isyay ayway etterbay anthay allyay anguaglays everyay okenspay! (Inyay ymay umblehay opayinionay.)



Post Edited (08-08-05 06:30)

"Being half German/Swiss, I must say that the stereotypes aren't to be taken seriously. However, it is true that Germans don't take ice in their drinks. I know...shameful."

Oh, when did we stop taking ice in our drinks? Strange, you leave this country for a couple of days and everything changes...

My grandparents don't use ice(except in plain water), and neither do their German/Swiss parents/siblings/relatives. Maybe you come from a different region? I heard that the general idea was that ice, when it melts, waters down the drink...so some people don't use ice. Huh. But I'm not an expert, so please excuse me for making a generalization.

Hmm, I'm not sure taking ice with your drinks or not is anything to do with geography, just personal taste and prejudice (probably inherited from the people you drink with most often - perhaps your alcoholic parents?).

Bit like the whole milk/tea first dilemma, which causes similar debate. For what it's worth, the whole 'tea first' thing was started by the toffs to prove that they could afford expensive china that wouldn't explode with the sudden heat. Nowadays, with better china more readily available, nobody's cups are likely to explode, so the 'working class "gor bless ya" milk first' method is preferred by anyone with working taste buds, as the milk is less likely to be scalded. It's also why brewing tea in the cup is the height of vulgarity.

No, really...



PSD

==========

This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

I always thought the milk first thing was so you could measure it properly. That having been said, milky tea is just plain nasty.

~~It's also why brewing tea in the cup is the height of vulgarity.~~

You know, I never realised how vulgar I was until you pointed out that I have, in fact, achieved the "height" of it. Thank you for the morale booster, PSD. ::grin:: Then, I don't eat with my left hand, so does that make up for at least a little of the cup-brewing faux pas?

ummmm... is eating with your left hand vulgar? I've never heard that before! *help! I am left-handed, I always do everything with my left, omigod does that mean I'm a social outcast??*

It depends what else you're doing with your left hand...and whether you wash it afterwards.

I think to be perfectly safe you should also wash it before.

~~is eating with your left hand vulgar?~~

I suppose it depends on who taught your grandparents etiquette. At least it does if they're the one's who taught you. In my familial book of etiquette, it is proper to cut with the left and eat with the right; the other way round is considered uncouth. Then, that's not to say it's 100% correct. My family also considered the beating of children and wives as acceptable so long as the neighbours never found out. ::grin::

No offense, but that sounds like you've got it reversed.

The issue of eating with the left hand to which I was referring is a little more cosmopolitan...in many parts of Africa, the Middle East and Asia where eating by hand is common, only the right hand is used for eating. The left hand is reserved for certain matters of personal hygiene that shall remained unmentioned on this fffffffamily fffffffforum.

----The left hand is reserved for certain matters of personal hygiene that shall remained unmentioned on this fffffffamily fffffffforum. ----

That made me laugh. A lot. For some unknown reason. Hee hee.

What if you're ambidextrous? Are you on the border of society? If that's the case... well, at least I'm not entirely a lefty.

Amusing. Whether or not I use ice in my drinks depends on various factors. Whether I have ice, am not too lazy to fetch ice, and last but not least, whether I want the drink icy. Nationality has nothing to do with it.


I was wondering a little about Bismarck's weird way of talking. Just wondering whether there was a special reason for it, or whether it was simply a thoughtlessness.
It's no serious offense or anything, but a missed opportunity for puns or other forms of fun with a language. A babelfishy translation would have been nice, word-for-word translations of idioms can be quite entertaining...
The way Bismarch talked made me think of Japanese syntax, and that... has really nothing to do with German. No catastrophe, though.

~~What if you're ambidextrous? Are you on the border of society? If that's the case... well, at least I'm not entirely a lefty.~~

I'm ambidextrous, and I eat with my right and cut with my left. Though, if culture called for it, I COULD eat with my left and cut with my right. That's the beauty of being multi-handed. ::grin::

I've always thought that it didn't matter which hands the knife and fork were in, as long as they stayed there throughout the meal. Cutting is probably dangerous when performed with the non-dominant hand.

I'm mostly righthanded but I hold my knife (when using kniafe and fork) in my left hand and also wear my watch on my right wrist....

I also climb rocks for fun. And I *read*! Gasp. I am a social outcast.... I also don't like alcohol so ice/no ice doesn't matter.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.