</humour>

I was just going on a archive trawl, looking for interesting things.

One thing that I noticed was that while the fforum has always had an undertone of silly, that seems to have become much more prevalent over the last few years, to the point where it seems that almost nothing is taken seriously, or at least that there are no serious topics of conversation.

I am not saying that everything should be, but just that I doubt it is overly welcoming to newcomers (not to mention that there are not that many people actually posting anymore).

Long story short, is this reversable, is it something that should be reversed?

Also, since some old-timers have dropped by in the Ffiesta thread, is it merely a change of priorities or is it something deeper that underlies no longer posting?

If people are happy with the current state of the fforum, so be it and consider this another drop in the silly bucket.

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'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

I think the reason we old timers don't post much any more is that there is a different set of people around. I also think that quite a few people use Facebook instead.

I've never really felt that I belonged to any particular clique and have always found it hard to belong if that makes sense.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lovely bunch of people that post but the people I started out with a long time ago seem to have drifted off. I lurk and enjoy the posts that bounce back and forth but the humour seems to have changed to one that I don't think I can contribute too. I am pleased to see the Battenburg doing the rounds with tea on the trolley when newbies come along.

There was a time when a few individuals - they've disappeared too,so no cries of outrage needed - were very sarcastic making it very uncomfortable for some of us and we stopped posting because of the comments we received.

I put my hands up for only appearing and posting when I need to flag up the Ffiesta but if not here, where?

Maybe it's time to dust off the zimmer frame and become more active. Like your signature Martin, we must be mad to be here to begin with!

The observation that you make is probably fairly true Martin (and good on you for raising it) but I'm not sure that it isn't just the nature of the beast.

Here we have a general chat forum for fans of a very much alive author whose great talent lies in a peculiar type of (literary, but nonetheless zany) humour. A similar forum on, say, a site for fans of John Steinbeck might be quite different in tone; and quite understandably so. If such a site exists and one were to start a thread based on the premise of a (mute) treehouse or "...and the barman says", the responses might be fairly predictable. Regular changes of topic mid-thread might also be viewed with disdain on, say, Pphilosophy Pphorum.

So I'm not so much surprised at the probable validity of the observation, as I am that so many of us continue to cling together in our inanity, waiting for the next book and choosing to idle away a little time here with names that we know and faces that we imagine.

There are, of course, the book related fforums which tend to be more serious and stay on topic in ways which I have seen to be quite erudite (I say 'seen' because, despite my efforts, I don't think I've ever managed to contribute any erudity myself). However, if I suddenly get a brainwave about 'Something Rotten' I'd be pushing my luck for many responses posting there now. These tend to get used when the book is fresh, are less frivolous in nature, attract a new wave of enthusiasts, and meet their purpose nicely. But, as I say, it's been a very long time between drinks. Personally, I can't think of anywhere else, or of any other people with whom, I'd like to be waiting.

I agree that there are not very many serious threads, but if there is a topic that someone needs to raise there is no reason that it couldn't be raised. I suspect that it would eventually degenerate, but hopefully only after it had outlived its serious use.

From a purely personal viewpoint, I would like to see posts from some of the names who were here when I first joined, even if only to find out what they are up to now, and if they still lurk.

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My computer beat me at chess, but I won at kickboxing

Like I say, I do not view it as a bad thing, and maybe it is because it has been a while between drinks, as Robert so elegantly put it, but there do not seem to be many new faces that stay.

Even with the advent of a new book, people post a question or two and wander off again. I am merely wondering whether this is because, as a group, we are slightly offputting. Also, coming in and trying to get involved in something like the treehouse is possibly daunting.

Again, it is not that there is an inherent problem in the inanity of much of the conversation here, especially in the current absence of something newly Ffordian to talk about, just that it is the same people all the time. I am just wondering whether we are as welcoming to newcomers as yes could be.

Also, I in no way am trying to make people who have, for whatever reason, stopped posting feel guilty. I am just wondering if there is anything that could be, maybe even should be, improved regarding generally being part of the Fforum.

Anyway, am posting this off my phone, so it may not make the most amount of sense, but I was just wanting to clarify a couple things. Also, I agree in large part with Robert, this place does have its own flavour and I do not want to lose that. This is probably nothing more than some niggling thoughts, since something similar has come up on another forum I frequent.

__________________________________
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

Martin, I support you and I think you are right to raise these issues. Hey, you are only a young whippersnapper and so deserving of contempt, but unfortunately the points you raise are valid. We need fresh blood or who can we pick on?

I will defend our right (duty?) to go off-topic as soon as possible, 'cos if I want to stay on-topic there are thousands, if not millions of forums I can visit. This place is special and our joint love of Jasper's books important to me.

Do we perhaps need to ask him to split Nextian into fun and important?

I suggest that splitting would be a bad idea. Can you imagine the problems of a thread that HAS to be fun and can't deviate off to serious? It mars the freedom.

Going back to look at the older pages, one of the things I noticed is that threads are much, much longer now.

I wonder if that is part of the problem? I know when I started to look I was put off by long threads and started by reading the ones with the fewest entries.

I also think that the more people we have posting, the more likely it is that there will be something to appeal to the new visitors that the fforum is bound to get after the publication of Shades of Grey.

Am utterly horrified by the thought that the fforum might be off-putting to new visitors, or old ones who wish to return. As a relatively new poster who is also a relatively regularly poster, I assumed I was part of the problem and was so distressed by Martin's post and Lycanthra's response that I considered ceasing to post.

On reflection, and after reading what robert and SkidMarks had to say, I decided I would continue to post and continue to be as friendly and welcoming to all other posters as I possibly could.

<Examines contents of Martin's silly bucket and wonder's if the above was serious enough for him?>

Hmmm, wonder if I might have some insight here?

A few observations:

The longer threads tend to have shorter posts but those who haven't kept up with them may not know that

Some of us aren't British & may not get all the references needed to contribute to game threads-
but may still read said threads & enjoy being puzzled by them

It's been a while since a new book was released

Some lurk without posting because they have nothing to add at the time
or have run out of time after catching up on reading all the posts
(I'm frequently guilty of this)

Some visit more than one forum with higher activity (I'm a full-time boardellan)

Some may just enjoy watching the silliness even if they say nothing

Some have full & rich lives that preclude regular visits to the fforum-
once you get a few months behind, it's hard to pick up where you left off

Or maybe I'm just imagining things...


Don't know about the rest of you but I come here to relax & maybe learn something I wouldn't know otherwise-
if that can be done in the silliest way possible, I'm all for it!

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Signature or shameless self-promotion?
You decide:

[www.myspace.com]

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Geg, I am very sorry if you felt distressed by my post. It was not in any way, shape or form directed at anyone at all that posts on the forum at present and I certainly would not want anyone to take any drastic action by ceasing to post because of how I worded myself. I only wanted to put my view forward to try and answer Martin’s post as to why some of us drifted off.

I am deeply upset to make you think that I would openly attack someone in such a public manner because I had a problem with extemely sarcastic posters that targeted a few of us. I really took offence and was afraid to make any comment for fear of ridicule so I stopped posting a long time ago. I would not inflict the same kind of bullying on anyone.

This is a happy place for silliness and banter. I don't have an overly intelligent mind that can cope with the clever posting that takes place, so not to show ignorance, I just lurk. I wish I was clever and could discuss things in an intelligent flowing manner and make people laugh, but sadly that is not the case, after all the world needs less intellectual people to make the world more interesting. The Fforum has evolved and I remain a dinosaur who finds it difficult to get out of the primeval sludge.

I think my white flag as now been well and truly waved.

I can (possibly) explain why the threads are now longer.

In the days before almost universal broadband and better page management in operating systems, some people found that longer threads took ages to load, so once a thread reached about 20 pages one of us would start a continuation thread and request posters to stop posting to the old one.

Nowadays, it doesn't seem to cause problems.

I have briefly seen other forums dedicated to other authors I read and was quite surprised at how incoherent and inane much of the conversation was. At least all of you are clearly capable of stringing well constructed sentences and intelligent comments.

I think silliness is good and enjoyable in a light-hearted manner, as you know I enjoy it! I can get serious or even world-wrenchingly vital conversation anywhere, so it is nice to let my hair down for a bit of random silliness. whenever I like. Having to be serious can have detrimental effects on quality of life you know, why else have people had to create such things as laughter clubs?

I hear of forums, where personal viewpoints clash and it ends up getting messy, I'm proud of how well you all get along.

I remember when I started here, it was a bit confusing at first. It took a while for me to even get a feel for each individual (being seen as a string of words is not on the whole a really great way to recognise someone).

But sometimes people are spur of the moment and aren't the type to stick around anyway?

It strikes me that there are more than a few people around who think they are not clever enough to contribute on even footing.

Second, one thing that I am missing sometimes is an opportunity to really discuss an issue for more than two or three posts. There is always someone who feels the urge to interupt with a clever pun, and afterwards noone seems to dare to return to seriousness. You know, when I read the silent comment geg made above, I really thought for a moment (until scrolling further down) this would be the point where this thread gets ultimately sidetracked.

No criticism of you, geg, of course, since you and everyone else made the point that going off-topic does not happen every time.

There is a line somewhere between flitting lightly between far-lying themes and having to be obscure all the time. Maybe we are near that line.

Wow.... I really seem to have stirred things up with this....

geg: I definitely do not intend to make people feel that they should or should not post, for whatever reason. I was merely wondering if it was a general trend that people felt intimidated or, well, something, that made them feel less than welcome. Also, if it was the case, if that was reversible or if this was just me seeing things.

Skids: the reason that threads were shorter was not due to number of pages, but the fact that there were none. This meant that after about 100 posts it tended to get hard to follow the thread and it was a potential bandwidth issue as a secondary concern.

All: my main reason for posting this was just to see if people felt that there was something wrong with the general amount of silliness here and whether it was somehow offputting and not conducive to posting. Since most people seem to feel that this is not the case, and since I do not mind it (I was more thinking in terms of someone new to the board), this thread has pretty much served its purpose as far as I am concerned.

And apologies for stirring things up in such a manner.

__________________________________
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

I don't mind boat-rockers! It was an interesting question and I hope I don't scare anyone.The fforum does bring out the child in us/me, but I think it is good. We still can be serious, just when it suits.

Only this year we had a huge response from all you non-Oz people when those fires were rife here. It was nice to know that your support was there.

I would suggest that thinking about this too hard would be damaging. Draw a line under it for now?

Sorry PH, didn't realise the lame jokes and puns were so irritating.

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Part time Quantum Elephant hollower

I think that most of what I was concerned about has been addressed, so thank you all.

<draws line>

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__________________________________
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

At the risk of coming late to the party <watches band pack-up, and roadies stuggle out the door>.

Some of the things that come up, especially in "And the Barman said..." have had me scurrying off all over the net trying to find out what the previous reference was all about - much like the works of Mr fForde! Only to come back a little wiser - hopefully.

I have always thought of Nextian as being a bit like a smallish BBQ, there are lots of conversations, and food, going on around you. Once the topic has limped on as far as it can it gets subverted. Then you get people coming into convesation part way through, or carrying them off to another part of the party. It's fun with a soupçon of seriousness.

And like all BBQs there is always at least one mad uncle or aunt hanging around just to get everyone whispering behind their hands.

For people considering participating do we need a sticky post welcoming them and encouraging involvement.

<Pinches cold pies from tray travelling back to the kitchen.>