ThursdayNext : www.jasperfforde.com
A discussion of all things Thursday !
Jon's British Reference Notes
Posted by: Jon (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: October 29, 2002 10:13PM
<HTML>Alright...God, the things I do for England. Having offered and been encouraged (yes, that was you Twila, don't try and hide at the back) to do some notes on British cultural references for non-Brits I have been typing all evening, filled three sheets of A4 and ONLY DONE CHAPTER ONE OF TEA. There are a lot of things I thought needed explaining. Also I want shares in Google. Anyway, the next post will have the notes for Chapter 1 of TEA, and I will post a chapter at a time until (if) I get to the end, and then perhaps see about putting the final finished document on the Web somewhere (hint, hint Mr. Fforde) or perhaps e-mail it to interested parties. All annotations are strictly unofficial and all opinions are mine alone. Anybody got corrections, additions or disagreements please e-mail me. I am now going to bed and I hope you are all suitably grateful.
Jon</HTML>
Jon</HTML>
Chapter One
Posted by: Jon (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: October 29, 2002 10:19PM
<HTML>Jon’s British Reference Notes
A Non-Brit’s Guide to the Thursday Next series
Introduction
This work-in-progress-which-is-unlikely-to-be-finished is intended as a brief guide to references in Mr. Fforde’s works that might elude the non-British reader. There are several people on the Fforum from the USA, Australia and elsewhere who have expressed an interest in getting all the references and in-jokes, so here goes. I have assumed that all of you are sufficiently intelligent and literate (of course you are, you’re Fforde Ffans, after all) not to need all the many literary references annotating, nor such universal cultural icons as the Beatles, so I have confined myself to the insular and the deeply obscure.
Page references are to the UK paperback first editions, ‘cos them’s the ones I’ve got. Annotations are taken in page order as the item first appears. Are you sitting comfortably? Then we’ll begin.
The Eyre Affair
Chapter One
p.2 Maida Vale; inner suburb of (north-west) London, which in our world is quite pricey; either Thursday earns more than we thought, or the Nextian Maida Vale is a bit more downmarket. The poet Robert Browning also used to live there.
p.3 Trams; streetcars, to Americans. In our world trams in London and most other British cities disappeared in the 1950’s (though they are slowly being re-introduced). A symbol of the ‘retro’ feel of Nextian England.
p.4 Wellington; in our world it was of course only Nelson who was shot by a French sniper (at Trafalgar). Wellington survived to become Prime Minister. Yes, I know you know all this, but somebody asked.
p.7 the Crimea; OK, listen up. This is a biggie. The Crimean War in our world was fought between Britain, France, Turkey and Sardinia (don’t ask) on one side and Russia on the other, 1854-1856. The basic cause was that the Brits and the French didn’t want the Russians taking over Turkey and threatening their Mediterranean possessions. For some reason the allies decided the best way to show the Russians where they got off was to invade the Crimean peninsula. (A bit like occupying Seattle and then expecting the USA to give in). Everybody fought very badly and the end result was a no-score draw. However, for some strange reason the conflict had a huge cultural impact on the British; possibly as a result of the (relatively) large number of casualties, or perhaps because it was the only major war Britain fought in nearly a hundred years. Whatever, the war itself became a symbol of the futility of war (until displaced by the even more futile World War One) and gave us, among other things a woolly sweater called a cardigan (after General Lord Cardigan) a woolly hat called a balaclava (after the battle of the same name) and another piece of knitwear called a raglan (after General Lord Raglan). As you can see, cold was a problem for British troops. The war saw the start of modern nursing profession as organised in a military hospital by Florence Nightingale, and combatants were the first to be awarded our highest military decoration, the Victoria Cross, originally made from melted-down Russian guns. The most famous action of the war was the Charge of the Light Brigade, when the aforesaid Cardigan (who was a twit) led the Light Cavalry Brigade up the wrong valley and got nearly all of them slaughtered by Russian artillery. Cardigan survived and was later officially exonerated from blame, which instead was landed on one Lt. Nolan, who was conveniently dead. Sound familiar, Fforde ffans? The then poet laureate, Alfred, Lord Tennyson later wrote his most famous poem (imaginatively titled The Charge of the Light Brigade) to commemorate the event. Presumably somebody else did the honours for the action in which Anton De Laste Next was killed.
p.7 jingoism; Nextian echo from our world here; in the 1880’s the Crimean war almost had a re-run, and in the wake of popular anti-Russian feeling a music-hall song asserted that ‘we don’t want to fight, but, by jingo, if we do….’ Hence, jingoism, jingoistic, to be very gung-ho and patriotic.
p.8 Isle of Wight; island off the south coast of England, notable as a holiday resort, which in our world the French have never got their hands on.
p.8 pelota; why pelota is popular in Nextian England I do not know; in our world its appeal is confined almost exclusively to Hispanic countries.
p.8 Czar Romanov Alexei IV; surely that should be Alexei Romanov? One for the upgrade?
p.9 picketing cheese shops; when TEA was published there was a widespread protest by British truckers and farmers against the high rate of tax on petrol (gasoline).
p.9 Socialist Republic of Wales; Wales is a major source of humour and alternative history in the TN series. I gather that the nature and status of Wales, and English attitudes thereto, are not well known abroad, so I will attempt to explain. Wales is a country of approx. 3 million people, in our world part of the United Kingdom but very definitely NOT part of England; it’s that sticky-out bit on the left hand side of Britain. About a third of the Welsh people still speak the Welsh language, a Celtic tongue not related or similar to English. The south of the country (where most of the Welsh live) was until recent years notable for coal mines, and this naturally bred a people with a marked Socialist bent. Labour party candidates in Welsh elections didn’t bother counting their votes; they just weighed them. Wales has been politically and culturally subordinate to England for nigh on a thousand years, and there are those among the Welsh on whom this rankles. The English meanwhile, have very often adopted a patronising, condescending and even contemptuous attitude to the Welsh and their language (until the early 20th century use of Welsh was all but officially banned). Why the English (who by and large know very little of the Welsh) continue to condone and practice anti-Welsh prejudice, I do not know. Metropolitan trendies who would recoil in horror from a joke about black people see nothing wrong in making racist remarks about the Welsh (a well-known TV presenter did just that on national TV not long ago – she later apologised, but not very sincerely). It’s as if the English don’t believe the Welsh really exist, but are just a bunch of Englishmen with funny accents who insist on pretending to be foreign, just so as they can wind up the English. Apparently sane English people seriously believe that any conversation they hear in Welsh is about them and also that Welsh people only talk Welsh when there are English people to hear, and once all the tourists have gone home speak English to one another. Jasper’s joke is that were Wales an independent republic in conflict with England, the English would treat them with a lot more respect than they actually do. Note, I am not Welsh, and speak only a few words of the language, but Jasper lives in Wales and has a Welsh partner. Anybody thinking of making anti-Welsh jokes on the Fforum might like to remember that. (The name of the Fforum is itself a sly Welsh in-joke – ff in Welsh is pronounced as English f in fire, but f is pronounced as a V). Incidentally, Jasper always refers to the country in which Thursday lives as England/English. What became of Scotland and Ireland in Nextian history? (I ask as one of Irish descent).
p.9 Hay; Hay-on-Wye, home of a major literary festival and a thousand-and-one second-hand bookshops.
p.9 Owain Glyndwr VII; the original Owain Glyndwr (pronounced approx. as oh-wane glinn-dooor) was a 15th century leader of Welsh resistance to the English, the last such leader Wales had. He was defeated but never captured, vanishing mysteriously….
p.9 Dungeness; despite having trams and airships and other retro fittings, Nextian England 1985 apparently has nuclear fusion power stations, which is more than we’ve got. A nuclear fission power station does in fact exist at Dungeness (Kent) in our world.</HTML>
A Non-Brit’s Guide to the Thursday Next series
Introduction
This work-in-progress-which-is-unlikely-to-be-finished is intended as a brief guide to references in Mr. Fforde’s works that might elude the non-British reader. There are several people on the Fforum from the USA, Australia and elsewhere who have expressed an interest in getting all the references and in-jokes, so here goes. I have assumed that all of you are sufficiently intelligent and literate (of course you are, you’re Fforde Ffans, after all) not to need all the many literary references annotating, nor such universal cultural icons as the Beatles, so I have confined myself to the insular and the deeply obscure.
Page references are to the UK paperback first editions, ‘cos them’s the ones I’ve got. Annotations are taken in page order as the item first appears. Are you sitting comfortably? Then we’ll begin.
The Eyre Affair
Chapter One
p.2 Maida Vale; inner suburb of (north-west) London, which in our world is quite pricey; either Thursday earns more than we thought, or the Nextian Maida Vale is a bit more downmarket. The poet Robert Browning also used to live there.
p.3 Trams; streetcars, to Americans. In our world trams in London and most other British cities disappeared in the 1950’s (though they are slowly being re-introduced). A symbol of the ‘retro’ feel of Nextian England.
p.4 Wellington; in our world it was of course only Nelson who was shot by a French sniper (at Trafalgar). Wellington survived to become Prime Minister. Yes, I know you know all this, but somebody asked.
p.7 the Crimea; OK, listen up. This is a biggie. The Crimean War in our world was fought between Britain, France, Turkey and Sardinia (don’t ask) on one side and Russia on the other, 1854-1856. The basic cause was that the Brits and the French didn’t want the Russians taking over Turkey and threatening their Mediterranean possessions. For some reason the allies decided the best way to show the Russians where they got off was to invade the Crimean peninsula. (A bit like occupying Seattle and then expecting the USA to give in). Everybody fought very badly and the end result was a no-score draw. However, for some strange reason the conflict had a huge cultural impact on the British; possibly as a result of the (relatively) large number of casualties, or perhaps because it was the only major war Britain fought in nearly a hundred years. Whatever, the war itself became a symbol of the futility of war (until displaced by the even more futile World War One) and gave us, among other things a woolly sweater called a cardigan (after General Lord Cardigan) a woolly hat called a balaclava (after the battle of the same name) and another piece of knitwear called a raglan (after General Lord Raglan). As you can see, cold was a problem for British troops. The war saw the start of modern nursing profession as organised in a military hospital by Florence Nightingale, and combatants were the first to be awarded our highest military decoration, the Victoria Cross, originally made from melted-down Russian guns. The most famous action of the war was the Charge of the Light Brigade, when the aforesaid Cardigan (who was a twit) led the Light Cavalry Brigade up the wrong valley and got nearly all of them slaughtered by Russian artillery. Cardigan survived and was later officially exonerated from blame, which instead was landed on one Lt. Nolan, who was conveniently dead. Sound familiar, Fforde ffans? The then poet laureate, Alfred, Lord Tennyson later wrote his most famous poem (imaginatively titled The Charge of the Light Brigade) to commemorate the event. Presumably somebody else did the honours for the action in which Anton De Laste Next was killed.
p.7 jingoism; Nextian echo from our world here; in the 1880’s the Crimean war almost had a re-run, and in the wake of popular anti-Russian feeling a music-hall song asserted that ‘we don’t want to fight, but, by jingo, if we do….’ Hence, jingoism, jingoistic, to be very gung-ho and patriotic.
p.8 Isle of Wight; island off the south coast of England, notable as a holiday resort, which in our world the French have never got their hands on.
p.8 pelota; why pelota is popular in Nextian England I do not know; in our world its appeal is confined almost exclusively to Hispanic countries.
p.8 Czar Romanov Alexei IV; surely that should be Alexei Romanov? One for the upgrade?
p.9 picketing cheese shops; when TEA was published there was a widespread protest by British truckers and farmers against the high rate of tax on petrol (gasoline).
p.9 Socialist Republic of Wales; Wales is a major source of humour and alternative history in the TN series. I gather that the nature and status of Wales, and English attitudes thereto, are not well known abroad, so I will attempt to explain. Wales is a country of approx. 3 million people, in our world part of the United Kingdom but very definitely NOT part of England; it’s that sticky-out bit on the left hand side of Britain. About a third of the Welsh people still speak the Welsh language, a Celtic tongue not related or similar to English. The south of the country (where most of the Welsh live) was until recent years notable for coal mines, and this naturally bred a people with a marked Socialist bent. Labour party candidates in Welsh elections didn’t bother counting their votes; they just weighed them. Wales has been politically and culturally subordinate to England for nigh on a thousand years, and there are those among the Welsh on whom this rankles. The English meanwhile, have very often adopted a patronising, condescending and even contemptuous attitude to the Welsh and their language (until the early 20th century use of Welsh was all but officially banned). Why the English (who by and large know very little of the Welsh) continue to condone and practice anti-Welsh prejudice, I do not know. Metropolitan trendies who would recoil in horror from a joke about black people see nothing wrong in making racist remarks about the Welsh (a well-known TV presenter did just that on national TV not long ago – she later apologised, but not very sincerely). It’s as if the English don’t believe the Welsh really exist, but are just a bunch of Englishmen with funny accents who insist on pretending to be foreign, just so as they can wind up the English. Apparently sane English people seriously believe that any conversation they hear in Welsh is about them and also that Welsh people only talk Welsh when there are English people to hear, and once all the tourists have gone home speak English to one another. Jasper’s joke is that were Wales an independent republic in conflict with England, the English would treat them with a lot more respect than they actually do. Note, I am not Welsh, and speak only a few words of the language, but Jasper lives in Wales and has a Welsh partner. Anybody thinking of making anti-Welsh jokes on the Fforum might like to remember that. (The name of the Fforum is itself a sly Welsh in-joke – ff in Welsh is pronounced as English f in fire, but f is pronounced as a V). Incidentally, Jasper always refers to the country in which Thursday lives as England/English. What became of Scotland and Ireland in Nextian history? (I ask as one of Irish descent).
p.9 Hay; Hay-on-Wye, home of a major literary festival and a thousand-and-one second-hand bookshops.
p.9 Owain Glyndwr VII; the original Owain Glyndwr (pronounced approx. as oh-wane glinn-dooor) was a 15th century leader of Welsh resistance to the English, the last such leader Wales had. He was defeated but never captured, vanishing mysteriously….
p.9 Dungeness; despite having trams and airships and other retro fittings, Nextian England 1985 apparently has nuclear fusion power stations, which is more than we’ve got. A nuclear fission power station does in fact exist at Dungeness (Kent) in our world.</HTML>
Re: Chapter One
Posted by: Karen (---.syd.ops.aspac.uu.net)
Date: October 30, 2002 12:18AM
<HTML>This is an unbelievably thorough work so far. Great!
I knew nearly all of it thank goodness (my partner is a history buff and filled me in on some of the Crimean War stuff which I hadn't known or had forgotten - that's the great Fforde thing - you do want to chat about history and literature during and post-reading) except I didnt pick the "cheese" reference to the petrol strike business - now you mention it I get the reference.
Thanks from a Melbourne Fforde fan - oh I also didnt realise the extent of Jasper's Welsh connection. Maybe Welsh people get an even worse (because of their long history, language and culture) deal than Tasmanians do in Australia - they often get left off maps (even off Australian TV weather maps sometimes) and generally treated badly and there are oft repeated remarks about incest, 2-headedness and other horrible stuff which mainlanders seem to delight about saying about others. Maybe like Scotland they will "devolve" and stand alone one day - ha says me when Australia still clings on to your old Queen and all that colonial stuff.</HTML>
I knew nearly all of it thank goodness (my partner is a history buff and filled me in on some of the Crimean War stuff which I hadn't known or had forgotten - that's the great Fforde thing - you do want to chat about history and literature during and post-reading) except I didnt pick the "cheese" reference to the petrol strike business - now you mention it I get the reference.
Thanks from a Melbourne Fforde fan - oh I also didnt realise the extent of Jasper's Welsh connection. Maybe Welsh people get an even worse (because of their long history, language and culture) deal than Tasmanians do in Australia - they often get left off maps (even off Australian TV weather maps sometimes) and generally treated badly and there are oft repeated remarks about incest, 2-headedness and other horrible stuff which mainlanders seem to delight about saying about others. Maybe like Scotland they will "devolve" and stand alone one day - ha says me when Australia still clings on to your old Queen and all that colonial stuff.</HTML>
Re: Chapter One
Posted by: ScarletBea (148.177.129.---)
Date: October 30, 2002 08:51AM
<HTML>*stands open-mouthed*
gosh Jon that's brilliant!
As a non-brit who tries to be immersed in brit culture all the time, there were still things I didn't know.
(although I'm better acquaintted with middle ages english/welsh/scottish history than portuguese because of my love for historical fiction books, lol - see Sharon Penman, Barbara Erskine, Margaret George... )
Actually one of my regrets is that I *still* haven't been to Wales, despite going to england regularly (very... ). I'm going there again next december, but I think I'll leave wales till the summer ;) anyway, my days are already full eheheh
Suggestions for Wales accepted (bearing in mind I won't rent a car and I'll be relying on trains and buses - I usually stay in cities and do day trips, or hop around)</HTML>
gosh Jon that's brilliant!
As a non-brit who tries to be immersed in brit culture all the time, there were still things I didn't know.
(although I'm better acquaintted with middle ages english/welsh/scottish history than portuguese because of my love for historical fiction books, lol - see Sharon Penman, Barbara Erskine, Margaret George... )
Actually one of my regrets is that I *still* haven't been to Wales, despite going to england regularly (very... ). I'm going there again next december, but I think I'll leave wales till the summer ;) anyway, my days are already full eheheh
Suggestions for Wales accepted (bearing in mind I won't rent a car and I'll be relying on trains and buses - I usually stay in cities and do day trips, or hop around)</HTML>
Re: Chapter One
Posted by: Jasper (---.man.dial.ntli.net)
Date: October 30, 2002 09:35AM
<HTML>Hi Jon - very good. There is, in case anyone has missed it, an 'annotated' version of the first four pages of 'The Eyre Affair' posted up on the site with clickable words leading to boxes of information and pictures - although I didn't quite go into so much detail about the Crimea. I thought of doing an annotated edition one day when my schedule is a little less busy...
keep on fforuming
Jasper</HTML>
keep on fforuming
Jasper</HTML>
Re: Chapter One
Posted by: Terry Peterson (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: October 30, 2002 11:21AM
<HTML>Well done! I anxiously await more. Don't be afraid to state the obvious, since there will always be someone who hasn't heard it.
Terry</HTML>
Terry</HTML>
Re: Chapter One
Posted by: all-american-cutie (---.dalect01.va.comcast.net)
Date: October 30, 2002 03:26PM
<HTML>Wow, Jon...all that for me? <batting eyelashes coyly>
That was great and very insightful. Particularly liked the bits about the Crimean War (we were never really taught anything about it in our history classes as most books on European history only get to the point that Columbus came to the New World, so I missed out on a lot! If we want to know more, we have to go find out ourselves or take upper level college courses. And there are just so many great sit-coms to watch on TV that one never quite gets around to it! LOL)
The bit about Wales was also quite useful! So keep plugging away.
LOVED IT!</HTML>
That was great and very insightful. Particularly liked the bits about the Crimean War (we were never really taught anything about it in our history classes as most books on European history only get to the point that Columbus came to the New World, so I missed out on a lot! If we want to know more, we have to go find out ourselves or take upper level college courses. And there are just so many great sit-coms to watch on TV that one never quite gets around to it! LOL)
The bit about Wales was also quite useful! So keep plugging away.
LOVED IT!</HTML>
Re: Chapter One
Posted by: all-american-cutie (---.dalect01.va.comcast.net)
Date: October 30, 2002 03:30PM
<HTML>dang it, I keep forgetting that you can't put anything in brackets on this fforum b/c it thinks you're trying to format HTML! What I had tried to say to Jon was:
"Wow, Jon...all that for me? (batting eyelashes coyly LOL)"
just wasn't as funny without it!
~Twila~</HTML>
"Wow, Jon...all that for me? (batting eyelashes coyly LOL)"
just wasn't as funny without it!
~Twila~</HTML>
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