Cadbury has realeased here in Aus Dairy milk muffins packet mixes. they are SOOOOOO yummy. It's just like eating a block of chocolate except it's a muffin. There's also Top Deck cake mix, Cherry Ripe muffin mix, Fruit and Nut muffin mix, among various others. I thought I'd died and gone to Heaven when I saw them all!

My latest box from the Chocolate Tasting Club has just arrived.

Now, Skiffle, about that bra fitting session... :-)



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That which does not kill us makes us stranger.
(Llewelyn the dragon, Ozy and Millie)

Sarah

As I've been asked for three Nextarillions in one day (equals the record) I thought I'd bring Simon's thread back for the new recipients tohave a look at.


Magda, Alison - glad to oblige. 800k+. If you get any problems, let me know. I used to have my entire system jammed with emails like that until I got broadband, so I usually check first. I'll get them both off to you right away.

How far did you get, Magda? It really gets quite different from 'Chapter Minsky', which is Sarah's favourite bit.

I've e-mailed both of you now, so if you don't get it, get back to me. Lol.

Fascinating, thanks - to my shame I gave up after LOTR, the Silmarillion & the hobbit, having tried some of the laundry lists... do we need the first Bodyswappers as well? If so, pls could you email that as well?

Cwer, your business is turning into a publishing house with lingerie and chocolate deleveries - think that might be my idea of heaven!



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If the English language made any sense, a catastrophe would be an apostrophe with fur.

Alison, I suggest you see if 'The Nextarillion' makes sense without 'The Bodyswappers', as Bodyswappers would cause some delay - it needs tidying up. Or e-mail for explanations.

You read the Silmarillion !!!! That makes two of us!

'Unfinished Tales' is just about worth it, but from memory is frustrating, as most of the best bits were left Unfinished just as the point of them hove into view. Best is the encounter of Tuor with Ulmo Lord of Waters, and the trip to Gondolin. Just as they get to the final gate, the narrative ends ---

It seems that JRR could never bring himself to return to 'The Fall of Gondolin', possibly for personal reasons. The version in 'The Silmarillion' is edited for compatibility with the rest, and from memory goes back to 1919, the first part of the mythos to get written. It appears to be in reaction to his war experiences.

Part of my original idea was to incorporate the worthwhile or surprising bits of the laundry lists - here and there among them are some truly startling gems, but Chris T is so painful to read. The Silmarillion was a fantastic job, so perhaps the problem is that his father's papers were so disordered.

It took me 15 years to face reading 'The History of Middle Earth' series books 1 to 5, I have first edition hardbacks. It seems the series ends at 12, and I've now got the lot and read through to near the end of no. 10. Dinna fash yersel - it's a huge undertaking.


Now if anyone is listening, a request from Dave Rubach. JRRT was holed up in an army camp at Roos, on the coast near Hull, when wife Edith came to see him near the end of WW1. She danced amongst the hemlocks in a wood which was presumably near by the camp; I've got the OS 1 to 50,000 but the identity of this wood is not clear. Can anyone help? I suppose the old OS 1920 survey which was done in VERY high resolution would assist, but they are not the easiest thing to get hold of. Does anyone know where the 'true' Doriath is?

Thanks, I will : )
Possible Chris T just didn't have his father's talent, poor soul.



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If the English language made any sense, a catastrophe would be an apostrophe with fur.

I was surprised, when reading the 'HOME' series, four of which are concerned with the writing of 'The Lord of the Rings', just how far my estimation of JRRT fell. We seem to have a similar technique, leaving out the results! Now all the history and stuff looks more like the result of upgrading accidents than deliberate planning. The language is a different kettle of fish, of course. The process of reading 'HOME' ruined Pratchett and Tolkien for me, but enhanced my appreciation of Jasper. Odd.

At least Chris T came to a better end than brother John the priest. The RC's have just paid out £15,000 in a child abuse suit; he only escaped prosecution because he was nearing death (died January 2003 I believe).

Have you read Humphrey Carpenters' biography of JRR? It's an easy read (compared to Chris T!!) and very enlightening.

No I'll look for it - thanks. Seem to have missed John. Not paying attention!



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If the English language made any sense, a catastrophe would be an apostrophe with fur.

Nicky,

Will attend to shortly. Hotmail doesn't like me at the moment.

In advance of reading, 'Squirdle' is entirely Sarah's character, and the book follows on from her story 'The Bodyswappers'. I don't think this need be read before 'The Nextarillion', as references are relatively few, but we hope to have 'The Bodyswappers' available for e-mail before too long, having saved it from the extinct version of the Fforum.

You may or may not be in a position to comment on Squirdle, if so talk to Sarah! I resurrect Simon's thread 'About the Nextarillion' whenever I get requests, for readers' convenience.

Just sent yours, Ann Marie.

Magda, has yours arrived?

If I keep getting requests I may have to write N4 after all.

Your burger is getting cold!



..........................................................................................

That which does not kill us makes us stranger.
(Llewelyn the dragon, Ozy and Millie)

Sarah

Dave R - Got the disk, ta.

KT

When you find the bit in the book, do let me know if you know any Cotman-Hai personally.

Cotman-Hai. Hell fire, I've only just got that. There isn't an Alf Reton in there as well, is there?



- - -
I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

I was convinced that buses in Nottingham were all called Arnold when I was a kid.

Ah, but the difference between NCT and Arnie is that they appear less frequently .... Nottingham City Transport - they won't be back.



- - -
I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

No 'Alf Retons', sorry. I had got as far as knowing that the Uruk-Hai must have been part of the group led by JRR 862829 (a.k.a. 'Daeron') and the awful truth hit me; they just had to be the Cotman-Hai. They had to have been easily duped, big and violent. Ex miners? In an Ilkeston setting? In a book by me? Clearly the Cotman-Hai.

There are quite a few jokes waiting for you second time round if you find it worth the effort, like Klinsmann's comments about the ferrets. It was a labour of love going and putting them in retrospectively.

BTW Jon, have just read the 'Arthropod' as Squirdle calls it, and related hokum. Apart from the sideways reference to the Assumption (if I have it right) I see nothing specifically RC as opposed to Christian in general.

Oh no! Someone may be offended if I write further!

I think I put enough in about Cotmanhay to make the 'joke' quite clear enough, otherwise for you to know of a place that size is stupefying.

Of course 'Cotman' was also one of the ancestral names of the Cotton family (as in Rose of that ilk), so a double JRRT gag there.

I only know Cotmanhay because the Notts & Derby trolleybuses went there. (I seem to have outed myself as a transport geek).

I'm waiting for the whole saga to be on a website somewhere before reading it properly, anyway.

Actually I am mainly basing my assertions of the RC influence on JRRT's work on the testimony of the man himself (chiefly in 'Letters'), rather than from any advanced theological reference-spotting of my own. Since the only kind of Christianity I know anything at all about is the RC sort I probably assume RC-specifics where to a better educated eye none in fact appear.



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I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

'Letters' is one of the things I have not gone into, though I am aware that there is a lot of material in there. My guess (and here you are a better judge) is that they are less likely to be 'canonical' than the 'HOME' series for two reasons :-

1) Chris T will have referred to them in HOME if he saw a point in doing so. Heaven knows there is enough in there already ---

2) JRRT's opinions about his works clearly changed with time. Letters are of the moment. They are not re-written over and over again in a variety of subsequent versions (except perhaps by me!) Who can say if the content of a letter is associated with a discarded line of thinking? A HOME reader.

But that is really my excuse for not reading any more than I can bear!

I know you are a transport geek, I have been 'on the wagon' (or off it might be better!) for about a year now, don't encourage me. If I proved unhealable, we could natter for ever about it.

I shall try to use that gag if I can! However opportunities are limited.

I'm sorry about the website delay. There was a narrow window of opportunity to do the job, and then I got into a massive rewrite of something else. In the meanwhile, if you want to print it from Word in the font of your choice, an e-mail can gladly be sent.

FWIW I was not surprised by anything in 'Arthropod' etc. JRRT's musings are based on exactly the same attitude I would have had. Having time to stew over his writings, any Christian would (I think) be concerned by having created a 'God' that could not be bothered to communicate with his creations. That would have been to create something which, whilst no serious person would have taken it to be a 'God', would by association have been a bad 'signpost' to the kind of God you believed in yourself. Thus JRRT was stuck with not thinking it appropriate to have overt religion in his works (which is I believe covered by Humphrey Carpenter) and as a result giving the appearance that Eru had no concern to contact the men of Middle Earth. This sort of thing is diabolical to the Christian view of God. No wonder he got into a twist about it. If you want an analysis of what I had suspected as an RC viewpoint before, let's go private; but in any case, I think 'Arthropod' (as it seems I will always call it) has only one sentence that could be taken as RC, and I am not sure about that as it is of dubious interpretation (not having it in front of me that's the best I can do).

In fact the result of the reading I have done since I last exchanged views with you has been to find my own speculations about the possible intentions of Tolkien to be a bullseye. Now that they are established as part of his fiction, rather than a projection of mine onto it, I am much more likely to write about those parts, as I can now do so from a relatively uncontroversial position. Seems I'll be reading a bit more before N4 gets started.

I suppose I shall have to read the letters, but my opinion from what I have seen so far is that he may have felt the need to be seen to be Catholic, but of course there is a very large body of Christianity which is not disputed by any of the denominations, and he appears to have restricted himself to that.

When is that new Tom Shippey thing out? I must be a glutton for punishment.