In my stack lives LiaGB (a friend has TEA at the moment), the fourth Jean M Auel (can't remember what it's called), a random companion guide to Stargate SG-1 called 'Beyond the Gate', a journal and a horoscope book that is full of crap and can never tell me what is going to happen.

In the other stack are three Star Trek books I can't remember buying, Gervase Phinn (if you haven't read him I suggest you do) and a hardback copy of LoTR that I kep meaning to get around to reading.

And if you ask me there's a positive correlation between librarians and intelligent bookish people, the type that make up the majority of the fforum...



--------------

There's a hole in my creativity bucket and it's all leaked out.

Oh, I forgot to say - Jo was not 'the' 6th Form Librarian - she was 'one of'. I dated at least one of the others... (Q for Jo: Was Kathryn a librarian? She always wore a cardigan...)

Gervaise Phinn also gets a thumbs up from me, if you fancy a Sunday afternoon type book.

Stupid White Men stupidly won some prize or other, which annoys me even more... did anybody else read it and think 'half of these arguments are just stupid and easily disproved'? Admittedly parts are very funny, but other bits are just badly researched or downright misinformation.

Glad there's some librarian type people about, maybe they'll tell me to shut up if I'm making too much noise!



PSD

==========

This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

Re Stupid White Men. I tend to agree. Most of the book was about domestic US issues I know very little about, so I was sort of willing to accept what he was saying (although what *was* that whole piece with Jeb Bush about?), but as soon as he strayed into any area where I had a clue (eg N Ireland) the phrase 'dumb arse' began to wander across my mind.

This leads to another thought. We all have areas of expertise. Occasionally a story will appear in the media that strays into one of mine. And disturbingly often they are badly researched, misinformed, or just plain wrong. And I think, well I know *that's* BS cos I know the subject, but if they can get that so wrong ... what the hell else do they get wrong that I don't know about? Is anything right at all? Help!

Anyone else had this experience?



- - -
I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

yup. I refer you back to 'Lesbian Nympho Japanese Macaques' (and how good a Manga comic would THAT be?)...

The problem with me is that i know shedloads about GM techniques (hell, I've created transgenic stuff myself) and other biological thingummyjigs, and whenever it gets into the press somebody will get it massively wrong. AS for anything even vaguely political, take both sides and split the difference. That'll e roughly the truth.



PSD

==========

This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

poetscientistdrinker wrote:

> AS for anything
> even vaguely political, take both sides and split the
> difference. That'll be roughly the truth.

I wouldn't like to have to live on the difference between *our* 'two sides'.

Ooh, little bit of politics there ladies and gentlemen ....



- - -
I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

It's one of those 'spot the difference' competitions, I think.

Question of the day: Will it shortly be time for the march of IDS?



PSD

==========

This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

Answer of the day; who gives a toss?



- - -
I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

Good point Jon. I cringe whenever something medical or biochemical comes up on the news, and my mother (who works as a clinical microbiologist at a large hospital) does so to an even greater extent. They talk about things that have been happening for decades (like antibiotic resistance or flesh eating bacteria) as if it were a brand new and shocking thing. And they use the terms virus and bacteria interchangably.

As to the pile of books under my nightstand, I've currently got TEA, 'A Dragonfly in Amber' by Diana Gabaldon, several Dortmunder books (Jon's fault), the most recent Elizabeth George Lynley/Havers mystery, and a JD Robb novel (latest in a romantic suspense series featuring a New York City homicide detective in the year 2059) Oh, and there might be a Janet Evanovich book down there too.

Obviously I'm going through a mystery phase at the moment.



Post Edited (02-28-03 00:58)

--------------
"I've often said that the difference between British and American SF TV series is that the British ones have three-dimensional characters and cardboard spaceships, while the Americans do it the other way around."
--Ross Smith

jon wrote:

> Answer of the day; who gives a toss?
>
>

Agreed, which probably explains the lack of political arguments around here...



PSD

==========

This is the work of an Italian narco-anarchic collective. Don't bother insulting them, they can't read English anyway.

I wish I could have posted this before we got onto the tossing of politics, but anyway....I have on my bookshelf a very old book, published in 1883. it was my geandmother's, she was born in 1899. The book is called the 'Ladies Guide' and my sister and I used to sit around and laugh ourselves senseless. Topics - one chapter called Home Training has subheadings of "Mistakes of Mothers", "Useless Accopmlishments", "Average Size of Female Brain" etc etc. Also warnings about the effects of reading sentimental literature. If you ever need advice, I will be able to provide quotes.

Magda wrote

>several Dortmunder books (Jon's fault)

Hey, I made a convert! Cool. Which ones have you got, which have you read, aren't they great?

Vanessa wrote

>Also warnings about the effects of reading sentimental literature

What dire effects are alleged to ensue from such dangerous reading? I thought sentimental lit. was practically compulsory for Victorians.

Er - that's Victorians as in the era, not people from Melbourne, btw.



- - -
I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

q. What are Dortmunder books?

my bookshelf (ok, it's a windowsill) currently has on it Lord of the Rings (into Return of the King now...) (advice for anyone contemplating a lovely hardback edition of LOTR - think again. They weigh a blummin ton. Get one for show purposes, buy the paperback individuals for actual reading...), The Tolkein Companion (given the speed I'm reading LOTR, it's kinda useful), and RedRobe by Jon Courtenay Grimwood, for a spot of sci-fi relief.

However, there are several hundred others kicking round the house in various places. Rob can testify to this. There are also several more hundred in the loft in boxes (don't ask) and up at my mother's house in Newcastle.

She keeps asking when I'm going to shift them. They're in my old room, tucked away nicely. It's not like she actually *needs* the space... :-)

dave wrote:

> q. What are Dortmunder books?

A series of books by Donald E Westlake, featuring the pessimistic burglar John Archibald Dortmunder. Very funny. Start with 'The Hot Rock' (which was also a pretty good film, although Redford was way too pretty for Dortmunder).



- - -
I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

ok there's now a Dortmunder book on my stack of stuff to read...."Don't ask" as it was
a. the only one Borders had (waterstones and smiths didn't have any), and
b. it was only £4.95

I shall report back on progress.

Jon wrote:

> Hey, I made a convert! Cool. Which ones have you got, which have you read, aren't they great?

Which have I got? Well, all of them, actually.

My mom was ordering something from Amazon, and we weren't up to the free shipping amount yet, so I tacked on "The Hot Rock", having just read your webpage at the time and thought they sounded fun.

After reading that, and lending it to my best friend who also enjoyed it, I decided to get the next few books. Only to discover that books 2 thru 8 or so were out of print. Very annoying that.

So, being the obsessive compulsive personality that I am with regard to reading all the books in any series I like, I hopped onto abebooks.com and tracked them down. I found most of them for well under $10 each. The only two I had to go higher on were numbers 3 & 4, which have apparently been out of print since the 1970s.

So to answer your second question, I've been interspersing them between other books I've read, and have so far gotten through:
The Hot Rock
Bank Shot
Jimmy the Kid
Nobody's Perfect
Why Me
Good Behavior
Drowned Hopes

And Don't Ask is waiting for when I next feel like a Dortmunder Fix.

I was hooked in the first book when I got to the bit which went (very roughly) as follows:

Dortmunder: Which prison is he in?
Kelp: Who, Greenberg?
Dortmunder: No, King Farouk.
Kelp: King Farouk? He's in prison? What's he in for?
Dortmunder: He's not. I was talking about Greenberg.
Kelp: Well then what's King Farouk got to do with it?
Dortmunder: Nothing. It was sarcasm. I won't do it again.


My best friend Elaine is reading them after me, and is also enjoying them a great deal. She particularly loved the bit in Why Me where he gets hauled into the police station for questioning about the ring, while the ring in question is struck on his finger. And having gone to Catholic school, she loved Good Behavior.

So to answer your last question: yes, they're great.

Magda wrote:

> Only to discover that books 2 thru 8 or so were out of print. Very
> annoying that.

It's not just annoying, it's criminal. When you look at the great drifts of ephemeral crap clogging up bookstores en route to remainder shops, to think that seriously good stuff like this (and it's not just me and Magda, folks ... Terry Pratchett likes them too!) is out of print, it just makes me want to ... want to ... Aha! got it. It makes me want to send Tiny Bulcher round to the publishers with a reminder.

And I don't know whether to be pleased or sad that it took a Brit to recommend the quintessentially American (well .... quintessentially New Yorker) Westlake to one of his fellow citizens. Almost everything I think I know about America I got from Westlake (and the rest I got from Garrison Keillor) ... if I could drive I could probably get round NYC pretty well, thanks to Stan Murch.

One of favourite bits is when Kelp's cousin the cop introduces him to Sambucca, and lights it.
Kelp: "What's burning?"
Cop; "The alcohol."
Kelp: "So why do it?"



Post Edited (02-28-03 17:55)

- - -
I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

any idea what order they should go in? I've got " Don't Ask" but have no idea where in the series it comes. Does it matter?

And as I recall, the cop decides that Kelp has a point and puts it out.

And yes, I was rather depressed to discover that my local Waldenbooks had NO Westlake books at all, under any category I could think to look in. Especially considering the number of Danielle Steel books they do have.

It's very odd to me that the earlier books in a series for which new books are still being written are out of print. I suppose we could write protest letters to Mysterious Press asking them to republish them. The Hot Rock is still in print, so you would think that folks who read that and the more recent books would want the others too, if they were available.

Don't Ask is quite late in the run, but it's OK; they can all be read stand-alone quite successfully. The only thing you lose is the development of the running gags over the series.

The full set in order is;

The Hot Rock
Bank Shot
Jimmy the Kid
Nobody's Perfect
Why Me
Good Behavior
Drowned Hopes
Don't Ask
What's The Worst That Could Happen?
Bad News



- - -
I am very interested in the Universe. I am specialising in the Universe and everything surrounding it. - E. L. Wisty

It shouldn't matter tremendously. Each book can stand alone, although they do occassionally make passing reference to things that happened in earlier books.


The full list (I think) in order is:

The Hot Rock (1970)
Bank Shot (1972)*
Jimmy The Kid (1974)*
Nobody's Perfect (1977)*
Why Me? (1983)*
Good Behavior (1986)*
Drowned Hopes (1990)*
Don't Ask (1993)
What's The Worst That Could Happen? (1996)
Bad News (2001)

* Out of print

So Don't Ask is relatively late in the series, but is only the second book actually still in print.



--------------
"I've often said that the difference between British and American SF TV series is that the British ones have three-dimensional characters and cardboard spaceships, while the Americans do it the other way around."
--Ross Smith